[Greenbuilding] green can be cheaper than not-green/standard product

Mon Dec 18 13:58:39 CST 2006

* fridge that uses the least energy = much cheaper than probably 95% of all
available fridges
* water heater that uses the least energy = for free on curb in a city near
you (decades old 20-gallon gas fired)
* house that uses the least energy = small and thus much much cheaper than
you know what
transport that uses the least energy = bicycle
* etc.
I delight in lists so generated that suggest ways to do an end-run around
this common assumption, which, while often true for a given pair of
products, need not hold if the range of possibilities is expanded. But you
all know this already.

Reuben Deumling

On 12/18/06, Mark Marcoplos <marcoplos at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I second Bill - there's a lot that can be done without increasing costs &
> we
> need to be careful that this myth doesn't get perpetuated. The utilities
> and
> other "depletist" profiteers love to run this up the flagpole.
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Updike" <updikew at yahoo.com>
> To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Totally turned off by high prices for
> greenproducts
>
>
> > It seems to me that we should be very careful in
> > assuming that green building necessarily has to cost
> > more or that it can't be used for affordable housing.
> > In fact, this study by New Ecology questions that
> > claim:
> >
> > http://www.newecology.org/cb%20description.htm
> >
> > Also, in my backyard (Washington, DC) we have a
> > wonderful organization called Green Home that is
> > trying to bring green building to the affordable
> > housing world.  They have been very successful along
> > these lines:
> >
> > http://greenhome.org/
> >
> > Of course, these are not zero-energy homes nor
> > perfectly "green."  But it is a start.  The fact is
> > that some level of environmental/green building does
> > not necessarily have to cost more.  It sometimes can
> > actually cost less (downsized HVAC due to better
> > envelope, etc.).  And, when you factor in the other
> > externalities, both environmental and human health,
> > green building turns out to be a phenomenal deal.
> >
> > I'm just concerned that we don't perpetuate the public
> > perception that green building is cost-prohibitive and
> > only for rich people.  Just my .02.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Bill Updike
> >
> > --- David Seth Melchert <dmelchert at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Geri, another angle on this thread has to do with
> >> the  exclusive and
> >> elite nature of "green" building in general. As all
> >> of us on this list
> >> know, there are a lot of hoops to jump through,
> >> pushing against the
> >> grain, swimming upstream...choose your metaphor. We
> >> struggle against the
> >> tide of "normal" design and construction and often
> >> end up nibbling
> >> around the edges or being very expensive. Effective
> >> and thorough
> >> application of green building ends up being
> >> available mostly to the
> >> wealthy or to those who chose to live outside
> >> society who have the time
> >> to slowly patch together a sustainable system for
> >> living.
> >>
> >> An aspiration I have is healthy beautiful and
> >> sustainable design
> >> available to the masses, energy efficient healthy
> >> and beautiful building
> >> being the basic starting point, not an added option
> >> for those who can
> >> afford it. Low income communities of color are among
> >> the most degraded
> >> toxic and unsustainable: how can green building be
> >> made readily
> >> available to these communities? The conundrum that
> >> you describe has to
> >> do with making green elements affordable for the
> >> wealthy clientele you
> >> (and I) have; how can we as a society evolve so that
> >> we not just make
> >> things "green friendly" but intrinsically
> >> sustainable?
> >>
> >> Mary's ideal of zero-energy zero material
> >> consumption building is on one
> >> hand a little like dreaming of a perpetual motion
> >> machine and yet is
> >> entirely laudable. Such building does exist - mud
> >> houses in Mali or palm
> >> branch huts in South India come to mind. But modern
> >> society does not
> >> exist in any organized way that could live that way
> >> any more. I
> >> certainly couldn't live that way and send my kids to
> >> college as well.
> >>
> >> In short, your conundrum touches upon a question of
> >> deep change in
> >> society, utter transformation of the ways we live
> >> and relate to one
> >> another and the earth. A marvelous and daunting
> >> challenge that extends
> >> far beyond your showroom.
> >>
> >> Seth
> >>
> >> Geri Spieler wrote:
> >> > Thanks for your replies:
> >> > ...
> >> > The best advice I've gotten from this post is to
> >> bring my "totally
> >> > green" stands back a bit and make the products
> >> "green friendly"
> >> > instead. I can still make the point, have
> >> educational literature to
> >> > elevate consciousness.
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     > Who can afford this? How are we supposed to
> >> support green
> >> >     building when the
> >> >     > price is so ridiculously high?
> >> >     >
> >> >
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