[Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: Totally turned off by high pricesfor green products

Tue Dec 19 10:46:14 CST 2006

the arguments for certification to assure that you got what you paid for 
notwithstanding, i'd still rather spend 1% of my budget on something that 
actually makes a bldg greener (e.g. solar hot water, daylighting, passive 
solar, insulation more airtightness, etc.) than on a piece of paper or study 
or calc that "proves" i did it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Lile" <LLile at projsolco.com>
To: "William Updike" <updikew at yahoo.com>; <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: Totally turned off by high pricesfor 
green products


> William Wrote: It seems to me that we should be very careful in
> assuming that green building necessarily has to cost
> more or that it can't be used for affordable housing.
>
>
> According to an Architect friend of mine, and some asking around I've
> done, it is possible to pick any reasonable price per square foot for a
> commercial building and build a comparable Leed certified building of
> the same square footage for the same price.  That being said, the
> systems and materials inside will be different, and different approaches
> would have to be used on each, and levels beyond "Certified" (gold,
> platimum) will definitely cost more.  It is difficult to "tack on" Green
> building principles and keep the cost the same, but not impossible: The
> First Unitarian Church of Houston built a major addition, decided to get
> it LEED certified at the last minute, and claims that the additional
> paperwork and commissioning required for LEED certified level cost less
> than one percent.  (they had planned an efficient, well designed
> building to start with)
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of William
> Updike
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:02 PM
> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] Totally turned off by high prices
> for green products
> Importance: Low
>
> It seems to me that we should be very careful in
> assuming that green building necessarily has to cost
> more or that it can't be used for affordable housing.
> In fact, this study by New Ecology questions that
> claim:
>
> http://www.newecology.org/cb%20description.htm
>
> Also, in my backyard (Washington, DC) we have a
> wonderful organization called Green Home that is
> trying to bring green building to the affordable
> housing world.  They have been very successful along
> these lines:
>
> http://greenhome.org/
>
> Of course, these are not zero-energy homes nor
> perfectly "green."  But it is a start.  The fact is
> that some level of environmental/green building does
> not necessarily have to cost more.  It sometimes can
> actually cost less (downsized HVAC due to better
> envelope, etc.).  And, when you factor in the other
> externalities, both environmental and human health,
> green building turns out to be a phenomenal deal.
>
> I'm just concerned that we don't perpetuate the public
> perception that green building is cost-prohibitive and
> only for rich people.  Just my .02.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Bill Updike
>
> --- David Seth Melchert <dmelchert at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Geri, another angle on this thread has to do with
>> the  exclusive and
>> elite nature of "green" building in general. As all
>> of us on this list
>> know, there are a lot of hoops to jump through,
>> pushing against the
>> grain, swimming upstream...choose your metaphor. We
>> struggle against the
>> tide of "normal" design and construction and often
>> end up nibbling
>> around the edges or being very expensive. Effective
>> and thorough
>> application of green building ends up being
>> available mostly to the
>> wealthy or to those who chose to live outside
>> society who have the time
>> to slowly patch together a sustainable system for
>> living.
>>
>> An aspiration I have is healthy beautiful and
>> sustainable design
>> available to the masses, energy efficient healthy
>> and beautiful building
>> being the basic starting point, not an added option
>> for those who can
>> afford it. Low income communities of color are among
>> the most degraded
>> toxic and unsustainable: how can green building be
>> made readily
>> available to these communities? The conundrum that
>> you describe has to
>> do with making green elements affordable for the
>> wealthy clientele you
>> (and I) have; how can we as a society evolve so that
>> we not just make
>> things "green friendly" but intrinsically
>> sustainable?
>>
>> Mary's ideal of zero-energy zero material
>> consumption building is on one
>> hand a little like dreaming of a perpetual motion
>> machine and yet is
>> entirely laudable. Such building does exist - mud
>> houses in Mali or palm
>> branch huts in South India come to mind. But modern
>> society does not
>> exist in any organized way that could live that way
>> any more. I
>> certainly couldn't live that way and send my kids to
>> college as well.
>>
>> In short, your conundrum touches upon a question of
>> deep change in
>> society, utter transformation of the ways we live
>> and relate to one
>> another and the earth. A marvelous and daunting
>> challenge that extends
>> far beyond your showroom.
>>
>> Seth
>>
>> Geri Spieler wrote:
>> > Thanks for your replies:
>> > ...
>> > The best advice I've gotten from this post is to
>> bring my "totally
>> > green" stands back a bit and make the products
>> "green friendly"
>> > instead. I can still make the point, have
>> educational literature to
>> > elevate consciousness.
>> > ...
>> >
>> >
>> >     > Who can afford this? How are we supposed to
>> support green
>> >     building when the
>> >     > price is so ridiculously high?
>> >     >
>> >
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>
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