[Greenbuilding] Tankless Water Heaters

[Reuben Deumling]

I certainly am not privy to the negotiations with and within the DOE in
relation to tankless water heaters, but the idea that at higher saturations
they (electric and gas tankless water heaters) could increase morning and
evening peaks seems plausible. Why do you consider them 'phony arguments'?
Reuben Deumling

On 12/21/06, Dr. C.F. Vasile <gfx-ch at msn.com> wrote:
>
> If only that were true. One of the reasons given against tankless gas
> heaters was that they would increase the peak demand on gas pipelines --
> which is totally false. They used the same phony argument against tankless
> electric heaters.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Pine" <nick at early.com>
> To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Tankless Water Heaters
>
>
> > Carmine "Dr. C.F. Vasile" <gfx-ch at msn.com> writes re:
> >
> >>... DOE's proposed Energy Star Criteria for water heaters that
> >>discriminated against both tankless-gas & tankless-electric water
> >>heaters! A group of tankless manufacturers filed letters in opposition,
> >>so we ended up with no Energy Star standards for any water heaters --
> >>just as Bush/Cheney and their utility backers wanted.
> >
> > Then again, DOE says:
> >
> >> The Energy Factor (EF) is the measure of the overall efficiency for a
> >> variety of appliances.  For water heaters, the EF is based on three
> >> factors:  1) the recovery efficiency-how efficiently the heat from
> >> the energy source is transferred to the water; 2) standby losses-
> >> the percentage of heat lost per hour from the stored water compared to
> >> the heat content of the water; and 3) cycling losses.
> >
> > I guess this comes down to standby losses.
> >
> >> The EF is determined under specific test conditions; for reference see:
> >
> >
> http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/residential/waterheaters_051198.html
> >
> >> Here are the current minimum energy efficiency standards for water
> >> heaters
> >> manufactured on and after 01/20/2004:
> >
> >> Product Class.....Energy Factor
> >
> >> 1. Gas fired....0.67 - (0.0019 X rated storage volume*)
> >> 2. Oil fired....0.59 - (0.0019 X rated storage volume*)
> >> 3. Electric.....0.97 - (0.00132 X rated storage volume*)
> >> 4. Tabletop.....0.93 - (0.00132 X rated storage volume*)
> >> 5. Instantaneous Gas-fired....0.62 - (0.0019 X rated storage volume*)
> >> 6. Instantaneous Electric.....0.93 - (0.00132 X rated storage volume*)
> >>
> >> * Rated storage volume = the water storage capacity of a water heater,
> >> in gallons, as specified by the manufacturer
> >
> > http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/how/es_electric_how.php
> >
> > The water heater already has an energy factor of 0.95...
> >
> >
> >
> >
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