[Greenbuilding] [BULK] Venting Dryers Inside?
Lawrence Lile
LLile at projsolco.com
Wed Dec 27 06:43:40 CST 2006
My vote is to vent outside. A gas dryer should be vented outside because of fumes. An electric dryer, with sufficient filtering, might be OK inside, but the fan on a dryer doesn't have much ooomph, and can't handle much of a filter. As far as the fire hazard goes, lint is a pretty good fire starter. A friend of mine lost a house and some family members due to a fire that started at a dryer, so it looms in my mind. An inside vented electric dryer would need to handle lint buildup.
Now here is another tack on dryers: The gas dryer is the only appliance in my house (besides the stove) which obtains combustion air from indoors. Combined with the air moved throught he dryer to move out moisute and lint, there is a lot of air moved through this appliance. This seems like a signifigant source of heat loss for the house, allowing all of this combustion air to infiltrate. I am thinking about hacking an outdoor air vent into the case of the dryer chassis, to allow it to draw combustion air directly from outside instead of trying to suck it from the house. Any reactions?
--Lawrence Lile
________________________________
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org on behalf of Blyth McManus
Sent: Wed 12/27/2006 6:26 AM
To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [BULK] [Greenbuilding] Venting Dryers Inside?
I understand clothes dryers are not the greenest things to start with.
That said, currently I am enjoying a lively debate on whether the
risk of fire, moisture, and lint buildup is worth the energy savings
of venting the dryer inside to help heat the house.
For me personally, the moisture would be great, as I am now looking at
humidifiers to ease the Saharan conditions inside my house.
Thoughts on venting dryers inside? On grade or above, with lint shield.
Thanks!
Blyth
DHS Design
On 12/20/06, greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org
<greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org> wrote:
> Send Greenbuilding mailing list submissions to
> greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> greenbuilding-owner at listserv.repp.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Greenbuilding digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Leslie Moyer)
> 2. Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Kat)
> 3. Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Bob Irving)
> 4. Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Corwyn)
> 5. Re: [BULK] Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Lawrence Lile)
> 6. Greenbuilding cost analysis (Doug Crowell)
> 7. Re: [BULK] Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Kidd, Peter)
> 8. 1/4 gallon per flush toilet... (Reuben Deumling)
> 9. Re: Composting toilets (Kat)
> 10. Re: [BULK] Composting toilets (Leslie Moyer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:10:52 -0600
> From: Leslie Moyer <Unschooler at atlasok.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> To: GREENBUILDING at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
> Message-ID: <45897CAC.8070402 at atlasok.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Reuben Deumling wrote:
> > I'm also specifically curious how much of an issue smell is with your composting toilets--of any variety? I get the idea that with a well designed stack and a tight fitting lid/seat it is fairly easy to reduce this to a minor inconvenience.
> >
>
> With the biodegradable bag, I hand-twist the top closed as I remove the
> bag, so there is no offensive smell in emptying the bucket. There
> shouldn't be, anyway, if you're using enough cover material. We put the
> bags into a garden-variety composter with a lid (but not at all
> airtight--it's this one:
> http://www.planetnatural.com/site/garden-gourmet-composter.html
> ).....there is *no* smell at all in our composter, perhaps because we
> use plenty of carbon (sawdust & newspapers)? The lidded compost bin
> also keeps the pile from staying *too* moist. We also periodically add
> some dry leaves and a scoop of soil for the beneficial organisms. Even
> in August (in Oklahoma), there was no smell. We have a window & a door
> in our home that is about 30-40 feet from our compost bin and we haven't
> detected ANY odor. It composts very quickly and by the time the
> composter is full at the top, the compost at the bottom is completely
> unrecognizable--not even the full sections of folded newspaper we use.
>
> We do have smell one time during the process and that is *while* you're
> using the "toilet". At first, your body is sealing the hole and there
> is no smell.....but because the feces doesn't drop down into water right
> away, there is smell between when you are done and before you add the
> cover material.
>
> We separate some of our urine, but we don't save the urine--it goes out
> through a floor drain with our graywater or just out into the forest. I
> have another home-devised system for that. I bought another seat from
> Cabela's (shipping is the same for 3 seats as it is for 1) and took
> another 5-gallon bucket and cut the bottom out of it. I set it over the
> floor drain and use it to urinate, putting the toilet paper into the
> bucket composter. However, I'm the only person in our 4-person
> household who does this....my husband urinates outdoors. My 2 daughters
> both use the compost bucket for both urine and feces. Excessive urine
> does seem to make the bucket smell more than a dryer compost would,
> which is why I use the graywater drain.
>
> Because there are 4 people using our bucket toilet (including 2 at home
> most of the time), we probably empty it faster than a smaller household
> would, so it has less time to "smell" indoors.
>
> Our kitchen waste also goes into the same compost bin once we take it
> outdoors.
>
> It is my hope that, because this is an inexpensive system to try, that
> others will try it, too, so I'm glad it interested you, Reuben. :-)
>
> We had actually planned to build a mouldering toilet
> (http://www.sunnyjohn.com <http://www.sunnyjohn.com/> ), but we ran short of time to build it before
> we had to move in here, so we started using the buckets as a "temporary"
> solution. They worked so well that our mouldering toilet never got
> built. (My husband still wants to build it as another experiment--I'll
> post about it if we do.)
>
> We started out with the bucket and the Cabela's lid, but adding the
> biodegradable bags as a liner really perfected the system--took the only
> unpleasant task out of the equation. I had purchased a few
> biodegradable trash bags when they were on a clearance table at my local
> Wild Oats. I'd had them over a year and never used them. Amazingly, I
> remembered them and gave them a try.
>
> --Leslie
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:31:28 -0800
> From: "Kat" <molasses at speakeasy.net>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> To: <Unschooler at atlasok.com>, <GREENBUILDING at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Message-ID: <001701c7246d$7246b460$0700000a at katwork2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> So, if I'm understanding this correctly, this system really *won't* work in a city (on a lot with a yard) because I think the
> city would get a bit PEEved (please excuse that one) if everyone peed outside all the time (especially if it always went to
> one spot - pew). Not to mention I don't want the neighbors staring at my bare bottom.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leslie Moyer"
>
> ......
>
> We separate some of our urine, but we don't save the urine--it goes out
> through a floor drain with our graywater or just out into the forest. I
> have another home-devised system for that. I bought another seat from
> Cabela's (shipping is the same for 3 seats as it is for 1) and took
> another 5-gallon bucket and cut the bottom out of it. I set it over the
> floor drain and use it to urinate, putting the toilet paper into the
> bucket composter. However, I'm the only person in our 4-person
> household who does this....my husband urinates outdoors. My 2 daughters
> both use the compost bucket for both urine and feces. Excessive urine
> does seem to make the bucket smell more than a dryer compost would,
> which is why I use the graywater drain.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:56:19 +0000
> From: Bob Irving <bob.irving at zen.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> Cc: Greenbuilder list <GREENBUILDING at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Message-ID: <0142DBE9-E4F8-4C47-9B74-5E18833A6E63 at zen.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I suppose it's back to the old-school chamber pot - pee in that and
> carry it out to the compost heap..
>
> B
> On 20 Dec 2006, at 19:31, Kat wrote:
>
> > So, if I'm understanding this correctly, this system really *won't*
> > work in a city (on a lot with a yard) because I think the
> > city would get a bit PEEved (please excuse that one) if everyone
> > peed outside all the time (especially if it always went to
> > one spot - pew). Not to mention I don't want the neighbors staring
> > at my bare bottom.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Leslie Moyer"
> >
> > ......
> >
> > We separate some of our urine, but we don't save the urine--it goes
> > out
> > through a floor drain with our graywater or just out into the
> > forest. I
> > have another home-devised system for that. I bought another seat from
> > Cabela's (shipping is the same for 3 seats as it is for 1) and took
> > another 5-gallon bucket and cut the bottom out of it. I set it
> > over the
> > floor drain and use it to urinate, putting the toilet paper into the
> > bucket composter. However, I'm the only person in our 4-person
> > household who does this....my husband urinates outdoors. My 2
> > daughters
> > both use the compost bucket for both urine and feces. Excessive urine
> > does seem to make the bucket smell more than a dryer compost would,
> > which is why I use the graywater drain.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding email list
> > List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/
> > greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
> > List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> > Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com <http://www.buildinggreen.com/>
> > publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
> > Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org <http://www.crest.org/>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:07:02 -0500
> From: Corwyn <corwyn at midcoast.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> To: Bob Irving <bob.irving at zen.co.uk>
> Cc: Greenbuilder list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <9caff7033d121dceedae2e29652a3ad8 at midcoast.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2006, at 14:56, Bob Irving wrote:
>
> > I suppose it's back to the old-school chamber pot - pee in that and
> > carry it out to the compost heap..
>
> Really, the sawdust makes a BIG difference.
>
> Thank You Kindly,
>
> Corwyn
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:48:56 -0600
> From: "Lawrence Lile" <LLile at projsolco.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Composting toilets
> Cc: "Greenbuilder list" <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <C3BDACA3AD63A44F8D2BF6788D766B90435416 at psc-s1.ProjSolCo.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Agreed, I find no reason to separate urine or go outside, more sawdust
> fixes all. No chamber pots or chilly bottoms required. No reason why
> everyone in a city with room for a compost heap can't enjoy the benefits
> of zero gallons-per-flush!
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Corwyn
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:07 PM
> To: Bob Irving
> Cc: Greenbuilder list
> Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> Importance: Low
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2006, at 14:56, Bob Irving wrote:
>
> > I suppose it's back to the old-school chamber pot - pee in that and
> > carry it out to the compost heap..
>
> Really, the sawdust makes a BIG difference.
>
> Thank You Kindly,
>
> Corwyn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding email list
> List info:
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.or
> g
> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com <http://www.buildinggreen.com/>
> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org <http://www.crest.org/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:05:59 -0500
> From: "Doug Crowell" <dcrowellster at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] Greenbuilding cost analysis
> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> <9d69db890612201405o5cd80bf0sb90f8186429dbc51 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Found this timely posting on the ASLA.org e-zine "The Dirt"...
>
> GreenBiz has produced a 64-page white paper published by Building Design +
> Construction (BD+C) that attempts to quantify the costs and benefits of
> environmentally sustainable buildings. The paper notes that the green
> building movement is now shifting away from focusing on just environmental
> benefits to focusing more on long-term financial performance. "Developers,
> investors, and pension funds are looking at green building as a promising
> new investment opportunity," Robert Cassidy, chief editor of
> *BD+C,*recently told an audience at GreenBuild. "But they want to
> know: Are green
> buildings more profitable than conventional buildings? Do they lease up
> faster? Are they better places in which to work and study?"
>
> Doug
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:39:46 -0600
> From: "Kidd, Peter" <jpkidd at hydro.mb.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Composting toilets
> To: "Greenbuilder list" <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <5CBA30CECB291A459CA273C12B2F14220335196B at MHMAIL02.hydro.mb.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Third and fourth floors served by composting toilets in this office
> building: http://www.cier.ca/office/building.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence
> Lile
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:49 PM
> Cc: Greenbuilder list
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Composting toilets
>
>
> Agreed, I find no reason to separate urine or go outside, more sawdust
> fixes all. No chamber pots or chilly bottoms required. No reason why
> everyone in a city with room for a compost heap can't enjoy the benefits
> of zero gallons-per-flush!
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Corwyn
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:07 PM
> To: Bob Irving
> Cc: Greenbuilder list
> Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> Importance: Low
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2006, at 14:56, Bob Irving wrote:
>
> > I suppose it's back to the old-school chamber pot - pee in that and
> > carry it out to the compost heap..
>
> Really, the sawdust makes a BIG difference.
>
> Thank You Kindly,
>
> Corwyn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding email list
> List info:
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.or
> g
> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by BuildingGreen,
> Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com <http://www.buildinggreen.com/>
> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r) Hosted
> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org <http://www.crest.org/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding email list
> List info:
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.or
> g
> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by BuildingGreen,
> Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com <http://www.buildinggreen.com/>
> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r) Hosted
> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org <http://www.crest.org/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:50:57 -0800
> From: "Reuben Deumling" <9watts at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] 1/4 gallon per flush toilet...
> To: "Greenbuilder list" <GREENBUILDING at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <bf530c410612201450r2daa85b9qe48957fce0b419c1 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> This may be of interest. <
> http://www.berger-biotechnik.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.berger-biotechnik.de/
> >
>
> It is an odd url. I'd be happy to send anyone the 147kb pdf which you can
> link to through the website directly but hesitated to do so to the whole
> list. Find the link near the upper right of the page three columns over
> labeled <1l WC>
>
> The description is in German but the pictures and diagrams tell a good deal
> too. It ain't cheap. 790 Euros (just over $1000) ea. if you avoid German
> sales tax. The bowl is porcelain and the seat some sort of plastic. Weight
> 24 kg. No telling what shipping would cost. Or perhaps someone carries them
> in this country?
>
> Their contact info is
> *Berger Biotechnik GmbH
> Juliusstra?e 27
> D-22769 Hamburg**
>
> Tel.: +49(0)40 - 439 78 75
> Fax: +49(0)40 - 43 78 48
> E-Mail: *info at berger-biotechnik.de
>
>
> Reuben Deumling
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:31:33 -0800
> From: "Kat" <molasses at speakeasy.net>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Composting toilets
> To: "Kidd, Peter" <jpkidd at hydro.mb.ca>, "Greenbuilder list"
> <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <004201c7248e$fcbe89d0$0700000a at katwork2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> But no pics of the toilets? You don't happen to work there, do you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kidd, Peter"
>
> Third and fourth floors served by composting toilets in this office
> building: http://www.cier.ca/office/building.htm
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:32:28 -0600
> From: Leslie Moyer <Unschooler at atlasok.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Composting toilets
> To: Kat <molasses at speakeasy.net>
> Cc: GREENBUILDING at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
> Message-ID: <4589D61C.3030103 at atlasok.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> That's not an accurate understanding of what I--or anyone else
> here--said. But if that's what you *read*, then, no--it probably
> wouldn't work for you since you have already made a decision about it.
>
> --Leslie
>
>
> Kat wrote:
> > So, if I'm understanding this correctly, this system really *won't* work in a city (on a lot with a yard) because I think the city would get a bit PEEved (please excuse that one) if everyone peed outside all the time (especially if it always went to one spot - pew). Not to mention I don't want the neighbors staring at my bare bottom.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding email list
> List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com <http://www.buildinggreen.com/>
> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org <http://www.crest.org/>
>
> End of Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 6, Issue 43
> ********************************************
>
_______________________________________________
Greenbuilding email list
List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com <http://www.buildinggreen.com/>
publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org <http://www.crest.org/>
More information about the Greenbuilding
mailing list