[Greenbuilding] [BULK] green building and plastics

Tue Jul 18 07:54:00 CDT 2006

I've plumbed houses with flexible pipes, and it is dramatically cheaper
in labor to run these kinds of pipes.  You pull them like wires, snip
them off, and terminate them at the faucet, eliminating half the parts
and pieces in a conventional system.  I replumbed an entire house in a
day with flexible piping.  With copper, or even rigid PVC it would have
taken twice that or more.  I am an idiot when it comes to plumbing, and
normally go through three floods before I find all the leaks in my
pipes, this time we just installed the stuff and it worked the first
time.  

The individual runs to each appliance are very small, compared to
conventional piping.  This means that the amount of water in each pipe
is small, and thus the amount wasted when you turn on the water is
small.  There is less variablility in water pressure, because one
appliance doesn't affect the water pressure in the others - water
pressure tends to stay constant at each faucet.  

And your plumber could upsize the pipe and feed both the sink and the
tub, they do make tees!

This is the kind of response you always hear from people who haven't
done something new before.  "It'll never work.  You'll be sick of it by
the time you get done.  There is no possible new building material or
system that is better than what I've been installing for 40 years. I
once tried a new kind of system that had a problem, so I'll never take
any risks with new systems again.  These newfangled Green and Solar
houses will never work.  A regular tract house from the 1950's is the
best possible system.  Blah blah Blah"  That is almost a direct quote
from some of the guys I've tried to work with.   

The manufactured house industry has started using manifolds in most
houses, AFAIK.  They do that because it is labor efficient.  Not that we
want to emulate them in every way, but I feel that this innovation is
actually a time and cost saver, and has Green advantages. Now if they
could only make PEX out of corn.  

--Lawrence Lile 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Stone [mailto:stone_jason at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 5:47 PM
To: Lawrence Lile
Subject: RE: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] green building and plastics

Lawrence,

We're looking into the manifold system, but were told by a local plumber
that it's not a good solution.  He says that because you have
independent runs to each appliance that you end up with a lot of extra
material (and
labor) costs.  He also added the example that if you have a hot shower
and shift to the vanity to shave, you're hot water is already there in a
traditional system, but in a manifold system, the water has to start
fresh from the heater (meaning wasted water as you wait for the vanity
to heat up).  It's too early for me to pass judgment, but I'd love to
hear any thoughts you might have.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Lile
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:51 AM
To: Nitya Akeroyd; greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] green building and plastics

Good Question, Nitya!

As you may have gathered, many people on this list are not keen on PVC,
because of the environmental and health impacts of some of the
precursors.  You can turn this around, and realize that there is a
potential market for a PVC replacement.  Nobody can count how many
things in a building are made out of PVC, it is so common, and the
market for a PVC replacement plastic would be quite large.  

Other plastics fare better.  While they are made of oil as you know,
which is nonrenewable, the chemistry can also be made of many other
feedstocks, so you could argue that there is as much potential for
producing plastics out of feedstocks like corn, wood and soy as there is
for producing fuel ethanol out of these same feedstocks.  A dozen papers
could be presented about producing plastics from renewable feedstocks
easily. 

Plastics often are used to replace copper pipe, an increasingly
expensive and nonrenewable resource.  If we ran out of copper today our
industrial societies would grind to a halt.  The cost and labor savings
of installing plastic PEX plumbing supply pipes is quite a story.  You
can also argue that the manifold method of installing PEX, with a single
supply line to each appliance, can save energy.  Here's how: in a
conventional system, a large pipe is brought to each bathroom group.
Most people run the tub for a long time until the entire pipe is filled
with hot water, and all this water is dumped to the drain.  A smaller
pipe means less delay, and less water cooling off in the pipes at the
end of a shower, resulting in hot water savings.  This can add up to a
substantial amount over time, if the occupants realize they don't have
to run the tub 10 minutes to get a hot shower.  

There is hardly a house now that is not wrapped in Tyvek.  This is a
success story that you could highlight.  

--Lawrence Lile, P.E.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Nitya
Akeroyd
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:07 AM
To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [BULK] [Greenbuilding] green building and plastics
Importance: Low

Hi Folks

  I work for a company that organises conferences for the plastics
industry and we are planning a building material conference. As I have
an interest in green building, i was asked to research ideas for a
section of 3 or 4 papers in the conference on green building.

  As well as an overview of the green building industry and the
principles of green building, the idea was to look at some of the
latest, hottest green building products that relate to the plastics
industry.

  I know at home I am always looking for ways to reduce plastic, so this
has lead me to think about the key ways in which plastic can be used
effectively that help to reduce environmental impact and improve the
efficiency, durability and "healthiness" of a building. What are the
things that plastic excels at that, that it does better than other
materials and that we actually want to make use of it for???? Would love
to hear from anyone who has any thoughts on this, product
suggestions/recommendations, or any other related suggestions.

  Thanks,

  Nitya Akeroyd

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