[Greenbuilding] Green Death and Water Quality
Keith Winston
keith at earthsunenergy.com
Wed Sep 6 08:46:05 CDT 2006
It's an interesting question, and some thoughtful consideration would be
appropriate (not that I'm going to do that here :-)
But it seems to me a couple of things somewhat reduce the chance of
catastrophe. One is, things are dying all around us, all the time. It
seems to me the natural process of decay is generally safe, when in a
natural context. Yet, in the case of large graveyards etc, is there
opportunity for things to function safely? And yet, how safer can they
be with the stew of embalming fluids seeping and fighting against the
natural decay process, in some cases perhaps chemicals that don't break
down as easily as natural tissue? And, humans are rather polluted
creatures, so what about all our heavy metals etc? These of course exist
in both cases... The only "safe" choice, if our bodies are toxic upon
death, is to sequester them (impossible over time or number), or break
them down and reclaim the elements safely (reduce, reuse, recycle). Even
with embalming fluids, your neighborhood graveyard is certainly safer to
your water than your neighborhood filling station... If you removed the
chemicals (those in the coffins too!), it seems like it only improves
the situation, to my quick analysis.
Well, anything further might border on thoughtful consideration, so I'm
stopping there.
Keith
Blyth McManus wrote:
> I have often wondered if there is there a potential threat to water
> safety if green burials become commonplace, where it isn't just one or
> two people, it's dozens or even hundreds. I live in an area full of
> wetlands which is also prone to coastal flooding and storm tides I am
> very aware of water quality issues. Many of us are on private wells.
> And yes, I am a proponent of green burial and also cremation. I just
> haven't been able to find an answer to that question.
>
> Cheers,
> Blyth
>
>
> On 9/5/06, greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org
> <greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org> wrote:
>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. FW: Green Death (Bill Hutchins)
>> 2. Garage/Workshop (John Messerschmidt)
>> 3. Re: [BULK] Re: LEED test (Lawrence Lile)
>> 4. Re: Garage/Workshop (Keith Winston)
>> 5. Re: FW: Green Death (George J. Nesbitt)
>> 6. Re: [BULK] Re: LEED test (George J. Nesbitt)
>> 7. Re: Garage/Workshop (George J. Nesbitt)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:44:04 -0400
>> From: "Bill Hutchins" <billhutchins at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: [Greenbuilding] FW: Green Death
>> To: "Greenbuilder list" <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <DGECKLANGJMIGKFEGJELEEHCEEAA.billhutchins at earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> from my wife.......
>>
>> and lawrence, what is your source
>> for emissions from cremation?
>>
>> best,
>> bill
>> www.heliconworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Beth Knox [mailto:bethknox at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:21 PM
>> To: Bill Hutchins
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Green Death
>>
>>
>> Hi Lawrence,
>> Re: your green death message
>> Green burial - ie not embalmed, not cremated - is a very viable alternative
>> to the present scenario. It is gaining in popularity as individuals get
>> educated on these topics. I am executive director of a non-profit called
>> Crossings (www.crossings.net) which educates exactly on these topics.
>> Embalming is never required by law, so don't let anyone tell you it is. It
>> is not a matter of state law that mandates embalming, but the funeral home's
>> policies. Families have the right to care for their own departed, foregoing
>> the intervention of a funeral home and these policies, in 45 out of the 50
>> states. Every state needs a green burial preserve. For a list of the
>> current ones, go to www.forestofmemories.org. Also, green burial is often
>> allowed on private land.
>>
>> There are options besides the one you propose (they are going to embalm the
>> dickens out of you at a medical school and THEN cremate you), more
>> ecologically sound, psychologically healing, and spiritually nurturing. To
>> say nothing of being more loving.
>>
>> all the best,
>> beth
>>
>>
>>
>> |
>> | -----Original Message-----
>> | From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>> | [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence
>> | Lile
>> | Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:57 AM
>> | To: Greenbuilder list
>> | Subject: [Greenbuilding] Green Death
>> |
>> |
>> | So much for recycling: Burials in America deposit 827,060 gallons of
>> | embalming fluid-formaldehyde, methanol, and ethanol-into the soil each
>> | year. Cremation pumps dioxins, hydrochloric acid, sulfur dioxide, and
>> | carbon dioxide into the air. It is actually legal in some states to
>> | bury corpses without embalming, however it takes special procedures (I
>> | know someone who insisted they be buried in this manner).
>> |
>> | Alternatively . . . A Swedish company, Promessa, will freeze-dry your
>> | body in liquid nitrogen, pulverize it with high-frequency vibrations,
>> | and seal the resulting powder in a cornstarch coffin. They claim this
>> | "ecological burial" will decompose in 6 to 12 months.
>> |
>> | I wonder how much Carbon Dioxide each of us will turn into if we are
>> | cremated?
>> |
>> | Personally I'll donate my body to science. Let some med student learn
>> | how to transplant livers on me. They'll end up cremating me anyway but
>> | at least I'll hit a lick for science on the way out.
>> |
>> |
>> | -Lawrence Lile
>> |
>> |
>> | _______________________________________________
>> | Greenbuilding email list
>> | List info:
>> | http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>> | List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>> | Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>> | publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>> | Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>> |
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:45:39 -0400
>> From: "John Messerschmidt" <John at ducecc.com>
>> Subject: [Greenbuilding] Garage/Workshop
>> To: "Greenbuilding at Listserv. Repp. Org"
>> <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <NGBBJIBHDKLPONCFLKCNAEBBCNAA.John at ducecc.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi There,
>>
>> I have a garage 20x20x8'high, built in 1964 out of cement block. The
>> ceiling is 4" of concrete with a flat rubber membrane roof. West wall is
>> against earth (side of a hill), south wall is abutting the (non insulated)
>> living area of our walk out basement. East wall is exposed, North wall has
>> the garage doors. The house is in New York.
>>
>> I wanted to frame out the walls and ceiling and spray on Tiger foam or
>> cellulose so that I can use the garage as a woodshop in the winter without
>> having to heat it. I could work in there if the temperature would be in the
>> 50's. Now I'm finding that to insulate (never mind the framing and
>> sheetrock) could be $1500 or more. That's ok, if it works. I'm just afraid
>> that with all the concrete and air leaks in the garage door I'd end up
>> freezing anyway. The floor is of course, concrete too.
>>
>> Additionally, we extended a room above the garage, taking up one quarter of
>> the garage surface. Now there is a dining room sitting on top of the
>> concrete ceiling of the garage. In order to keep the dining room floor
>> level with existing, there is only 3 1/2" of Icynene insulation between the
>> framing. If I could insulate the ceiling below, would it help the dining
>> room above?
>>
>> Do you think it's a good idea to add the expense of insulating this
>> workshop? Should I save the $1500 and use it to buy electricity to run an
>> electric heater?
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:44:33 -0500
>> From: "Lawrence Lile" <LLile at projsolco.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: LEED test
>> To: "Steven Shepard" <sbtdesigns at earthlink.net>, "Greenbuilder list"
>> <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <C3BDACA3AD63A44F8D2BF6788D766B9032C51E at psc-s1.ProjSolCo.local>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>> May I ask what passing this test will do for you and/or your career?
>>>
>> I am just curious.
>>
>> Well, maybe nothing!
>>
>> If you land a project that requires LEED (many federal projects are
>> requiring LEED compliance now) then it will help. There are a few
>> architects that believe LEED to be a basic part of a required skill set.
>> I know one that uses Green building principles in every project.
>> Although few of his projects are actually LEED registered, all of the
>> ones he does for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources would
>> qualify as Green buildings, for example. He doesn't like to like to
>> work with people who aren't at least LEED certified.
>>
>> I made it a priority because I believe Green architecture is a vital
>> component to a sustainable future. I use these principles on design
>> projects as a matter of course. Also, letters look good behind your
>> name. Will I ever get a job doing a LEED project? Who knows?
>>
>> --Lawerence Lile, PE, LEEP AP, etc, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:37 PM
>> To: Lawrence Lile
>> Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] LEED test
>> Importance: Low
>>
>> May I ask what passing this test will do for you and/or your career?
>> I am just curious.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Lawrence Lile <LLile at projsolco.com>
>>> Sent: Sep 5, 2006 8:39 AM
>>> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>>> Subject: [Greenbuilding] LEED test
>>>
>>> Well, I passed the LEED test last Saturday!
>>>
>>> I found it to be less difficult than the Colorado USGBC chapter
>>>
>> practice test (at least I scored higher on the real test than the
>> practice test) however I would nto describe either as "easy". On a
>> typical question, you have a field of seven possible answer choices, you
>> must pick three, two are obviously right and two more are close or
>> ambiguous. Many of the questions covered LEED application process,
>> which you don't have any chance to study if your company is not a USGBC
>> member and you can't access the members only areas.
>>
>>> Overall, I would describe it as a challenging test. Study hard if you
>>>
>> are going to be taking it!
>>
>>> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Greenbuilding email list
>>> List info:
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.o
>>> rg List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by
>>> BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r) Hosted
>>> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>>
>> SBT Designs
>> 25581 IH-10 West
>> San Antonio, Texas 78257
>> (210) 698-7109
>> www.sbtdesigns.com
>>
>> Our new email address is sbtdesigns at sbcglobal.net.
>> Please update your records.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:27:52 -0400
>> From: Keith Winston <keith at earthsunenergy.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Garage/Workshop
>> To: Greenbuilder list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <44FDEBD8.2040205 at earthsunenergy.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Well, the idea of saving insulating money to pay for electricity is
>> short-sighted -- but if all you're looking for is a few seasons, then it
>> might be the right answer... It's also true that with all that concrete,
>> it's going to be terribly hard to keep heat from escaping -- and the
>> fact that you think $1500 is a lot is foreboding. Don't get me wrong,
>> money doesn't grow on trees, but construction projects are expensive.
>>
>> What are you hoping to do in there? When you say work, do you mean on a
>> car, or something else? Are you planning on doing anything with the
>> garage doors? That's where the bulk of your heat escapes from, if
>> they're typical leaky, uninsulated garage doors.
>>
>> A good job would entail something drastic to the doors (swap one out for
>> new/tighter, close the other up?), some floor treatment (depends on what
>> the space will be used for, but since the slab was almost certainly not
>> insulated, huge heat loss happens there), and walls and ceiling. Yes
>> insulating the ceiling will help the dining room above, but not as much
>> as you might wish: a lot of heat will sneak out through the roof.
>> Concrete conducts heat quite well...
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>>
>> John Messerschmidt wrote:
>>
>>> Hi There,
>>>
>>> I have a garage 20x20x8'high, built in 1964 out of cement block. The
>>> ceiling is 4" of concrete with a flat rubber membrane roof. West wall is
>>> against earth (side of a hill), south wall is abutting the (non insulated)
>>> living area of our walk out basement. East wall is exposed, North wall has
>>> the garage doors. The house is in New York.
>>>
>>> I wanted to frame out the walls and ceiling and spray on Tiger foam or
>>> cellulose so that I can use the garage as a woodshop in the winter without
>>> having to heat it. I could work in there if the temperature would be in the
>>> 50's. Now I'm finding that to insulate (never mind the framing and
>>> sheetrock) could be $1500 or more. That's ok, if it works. I'm just afraid
>>> that with all the concrete and air leaks in the garage door I'd end up
>>> freezing anyway. The floor is of course, concrete too.
>>>
>>> Additionally, we extended a room above the garage, taking up one quarter of
>>> the garage surface. Now there is a dining room sitting on top of the
>>> concrete ceiling of the garage. In order to keep the dining room floor
>>> level with existing, there is only 3 1/2" of Icynene insulation between the
>>> framing. If I could insulate the ceiling below, would it help the dining
>>> room above?
>>>
>>> Do you think it's a good idea to add the expense of insulating this
>>> workshop? Should I save the $1500 and use it to buy electricity to run an
>>> electric heater?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Greenbuilding email list
>>> List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>>> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>>> Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>>> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Keith Winston
>> Earth Sun Energy Systems
>> 3927 Madison St.
>> Hyattsville, MD 20781
>> 301-980-6325
>> keith at earthsunenergy.com
>> www.EarthSunEnergy.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:11:38 -0700
>> From: "George J. Nesbitt" <geoedb at idiom.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] FW: Green Death
>> To: Greenbuilder list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <44FE2E5A.3010801 at idiom.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I recall that in a country bordering Inda they leave the dead for the
>> voultures.
>> Natures way of recycling.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Hutchins wrote:
>>
>> >from my wife.......
>>
>>> and lawrence, what is your source
>>> for emissions from cremation?
>>>
>>> best,
>>> bill
>>> www.heliconworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Beth Knox [mailto:bethknox at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:21 PM
>>> To: Bill Hutchins
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Green Death
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Lawrence,
>>> Re: your green death message
>>> Green burial - ie not embalmed, not cremated - is a very viable alternative
>>> to the present scenario. It is gaining in popularity as individuals get
>>> educated on these topics. I am executive director of a non-profit called
>>> Crossings (www.crossings.net) which educates exactly on these topics.
>>> Embalming is never required by law, so don't let anyone tell you it is. It
>>> is not a matter of state law that mandates embalming, but the funeral home's
>>> policies. Families have the right to care for their own departed, foregoing
>>> the intervention of a funeral home and these policies, in 45 out of the 50
>>> states. Every state needs a green burial preserve. For a list of the
>>> current ones, go to www.forestofmemories.org. Also, green burial is often
>>> allowed on private land.
>>>
>>> There are options besides the one you propose (they are going to embalm the
>>> dickens out of you at a medical school and THEN cremate you), more
>>> ecologically sound, psychologically healing, and spiritually nurturing. To
>>> say nothing of being more loving.
>>>
>>> all the best,
>>> beth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> |
>>> | -----Original Message-----
>>> | From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> | [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence
>>> | Lile
>>> | Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:57 AM
>>> | To: Greenbuilder list
>>> | Subject: [Greenbuilding] Green Death
>>> |
>>> |
>>> | So much for recycling: Burials in America deposit 827,060 gallons of
>>> | embalming fluid-formaldehyde, methanol, and ethanol-into the soil each
>>> | year. Cremation pumps dioxins, hydrochloric acid, sulfur dioxide, and
>>> | carbon dioxide into the air. It is actually legal in some states to
>>> | bury corpses without embalming, however it takes special procedures (I
>>> | know someone who insisted they be buried in this manner).
>>> |
>>> | Alternatively . . . A Swedish company, Promessa, will freeze-dry your
>>> | body in liquid nitrogen, pulverize it with high-frequency vibrations,
>>> | and seal the resulting powder in a cornstarch coffin. They claim this
>>> | "ecological burial" will decompose in 6 to 12 months.
>>> |
>>> | I wonder how much Carbon Dioxide each of us will turn into if we are
>>> | cremated?
>>> |
>>> | Personally I'll donate my body to science. Let some med student learn
>>> | how to transplant livers on me. They'll end up cremating me anyway but
>>> | at least I'll hit a lick for science on the way out.
>>> |
>>> |
>>> | -Lawrence Lile
>>> |
>>> |
>>> | _______________________________________________
>>> | Greenbuilding email list
>>> | List info:
>>> | http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>>> | List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>>> | Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>> | publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>>> | Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>> |
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Greenbuilding email list
>>> List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>>> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>>> Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>>> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:17:13 -0700
>> From: "George J. Nesbitt" <geoedb at idiom.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: LEED test
>> To: Greenbuilder list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <44FE2FA9.1030604 at idiom.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Congratulations
>> I am wishing I had those letters after my name right now.
>> I can't get certified as a GreenPoints Rater because I don't have those
>> letters, or have been through a $400 2 day training, or the one year one
>> day a month Sonoma State Training.
>> I don't have the time or money for either right now.
>> I know the material better than the instructors for the $400 2 day
>> GreenPoint Rater training that I already went through.
>> argh.
>>
>>
>> Lawrence Lile wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> May I ask what passing this test will do for you and/or your career?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I am just curious.
>>>
>>> Well, maybe nothing!
>>>
>>> If you land a project that requires LEED (many federal projects are
>>> requiring LEED compliance now) then it will help. There are a few
>>> architects that believe LEED to be a basic part of a required skill set.
>>> I know one that uses Green building principles in every project.
>>> Although few of his projects are actually LEED registered, all of the
>>> ones he does for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources would
>>> qualify as Green buildings, for example. He doesn't like to like to
>>> work with people who aren't at least LEED certified.
>>>
>>> I made it a priority because I believe Green architecture is a vital
>>> component to a sustainable future. I use these principles on design
>>> projects as a matter of course. Also, letters look good behind your
>>> name. Will I ever get a job doing a LEED project? Who knows?
>>>
>>> --Lawerence Lile, PE, LEEP AP, etc, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:37 PM
>>> To: Lawrence Lile
>>> Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] LEED test
>>> Importance: Low
>>>
>>> May I ask what passing this test will do for you and/or your career?
>>> I am just curious.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Lawrence Lile <LLile at projsolco.com>
>>>> Sent: Sep 5, 2006 8:39 AM
>>>> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Subject: [Greenbuilding] LEED test
>>>>
>>>> Well, I passed the LEED test last Saturday!
>>>>
>>>> I found it to be less difficult than the Colorado USGBC chapter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> practice test (at least I scored higher on the real test than the
>>> practice test) however I would nto describe either as "easy". On a
>>> typical question, you have a field of seven possible answer choices, you
>>> must pick three, two are obviously right and two more are close or
>>> ambiguous. Many of the questions covered LEED application process,
>>> which you don't have any chance to study if your company is not a USGBC
>>> member and you can't access the members only areas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Overall, I would describe it as a challenging test. Study hard if you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> are going to be taking it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Greenbuilding email list
>>>> List info:
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.o
>>>> rg List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by
>>>> BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r) Hosted
>>>> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> SBT Designs
>>> 25581 IH-10 West
>>> San Antonio, Texas 78257
>>> (210) 698-7109
>>> www.sbtdesigns.com
>>>
>>> Our new email address is sbtdesigns at sbcglobal.net.
>>> Please update your records.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Greenbuilding email list
>>> List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>>> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
>>> Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>>> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:21:56 -0700
>> From: "George J. Nesbitt" <geoedb at idiom.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Garage/Workshop
>> To: Greenbuilder list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <44FE30C4.5010408 at idiom.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Use Rigid foam instead of wall framing and spray foam, insulate all the
>> walls and the ceiling. As Keith says the floor is not insulated and
>> unless you can add insulation and another topping slab you will still
>> have a cold floor. And as Keith noted the garage doors need upgrading to
>> something insulated and weatherstripped.
>>
>>
>> Keith Winston wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, the idea of saving insulating money to pay for electricity is
>>> short-sighted -- but if all you're looking for is a few seasons, then it
>>> might be the right answer... It's also true that with all that concrete,
>>> it's going to be terribly hard to keep heat from escaping -- and the
>>> fact that you think $1500 is a lot is foreboding. Don't get me wrong,
>>> money doesn't grow on trees, but construction projects are expensive.
>>>
>>> What are you hoping to do in there? When you say work, do you mean on a
>>> car, or something else? Are you planning on doing anything with the
>>> garage doors? That's where the bulk of your heat escapes from, if
>>> they're typical leaky, uninsulated garage doors.
>>>
>>> A good job would entail something drastic to the doors (swap one out for
>>> new/tighter, close the other up?), some floor treatment (depends on what
>>> the space will be used for, but since the slab was almost certainly not
>>> insulated, huge heat loss happens there), and walls and ceiling. Yes
>>> insulating the ceiling will help the dining room above, but not as much
>>> as you might wish: a lot of heat will sneak out through the roof.
>>> Concrete conducts heat quite well...
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Messerschmidt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi There,
>>>>
>>>> I have a garage 20x20x8'high, built in 1964 out of cement block. The
>>>> ceiling is 4" of concrete with a flat rubber membrane roof. West wall is
>>>> against earth (side of a hill), south wall is abutting the (non insulated)
>>>> living area of our walk out basement. East wall is exposed, North wall has
>>>> the garage doors. The house is in New York.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to frame out the walls and ceiling and spray on Tiger foam or
>>>> cellulose so that I can use the garage as a woodshop in the winter without
>>>> having to heat it. I could work in there if the temperature would be in the
>>>> 50's. Now I'm finding that to insulate (never mind the framing and
>>>> sheetrock) could be $1500 or more. That's ok, if it works. I'm just afraid
>>>> that with all the concrete and air leaks in the garage door I'd end up
>>>> freezing anyway. The floor is of course, concrete too.
>>>>
>>>> Additionally, we extended a room above the garage, taking up one quarter of
>>>> the garage surface. Now there is a dining room sitting on top of the
>>>> concrete ceiling of the garage. In order to keep the dining room floor
>>>> level with existing, there is only 3 1/2" of Icynene insulation between the
>>>> framing. If I could insulate the ceiling below, would it help the dining
>>>> room above?
>>>>
>>>> Do you think it's a good idea to add the expense of insulating this
>>>> workshop? Should I save the $1500 and use it to buy electricity to run an
>>>> electric heater?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Greenbuilding email list
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>> Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>
>> End of Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 3, Issue 7
>> *******************************************
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>
>
>
>
>
--
Keith Winston
Earth Sun Energy Systems
3927 Madison St.
Hyattsville, MD 20781
301-980-6325
keith at earthsunenergy.com
www.EarthSunEnergy.com
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