[Greenbuilding] bio fuels and ethanol

[Tim Vireo Keating]

A population's impact is based on the # of people x the per-capita 
consumption. The real elephant is "development" - moving people from 
lower on the per-capita consumption scale to higher. One American 
child will have more 'pull' on the environment than 30 children born 
in India.

Not so much that there are too many people but that those people 
(especially those of us in the US) use way too much stuff.

tim keating

At 6:38 AM -0700 4/9/07, William Updike wrote:
>I would add that the vast majority of land (somewhere
>around 80 percent I think) is used for meat
>production.  I'm not saying that everyone needs to eat
>vegetarian, but if we all ate a bit lower on the food
>chain there would be much more land for
>switchgrass/sugar cane fuel production, and still
>provide enough affordable food for the world's poor
>(of course the reason why people are starving is much
>more complex than just the price of food--not to
>mention the effect that increasing climate change will
>have on poor and hungry people if we don't move to
>better fuel sources).  In addition, I recently saw a
>report that said that cattle production causes more
>greenhouse gases that automobiles.  I'm not sure if
>that's true, but it's interesting to think about
>nonetheless.
>
>Of course, the elephant in the room in any discussions
>of the illusion of "sustainability" is always
>population.  There are just too many people on this
>rock.
>
>On a side note, I also think it's important not to use
>the word "idiotically" in any listserv conversation
>(as one poster recently did).  Not too helpful for
>open and honest debate.
>
>Cheers,
>Bill
>
>--- Ross MacLeod <drossmacleod at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Dan,
>>
>>  The community oriented ecosystems that you describe
>>  represent a good
>>  target.  But the challenge that you gloss over, is
>>  how we get there.   It
>>  has been estimated that the natural carrying
>>  capacity of Mother Earth is
>>  somewhere around 1.5 billion people, whereas we are
>>  on our way to 8
>>  billion.   The transition from our current
>>  approaches to truly sustainable
>>  ones, is the challenge that humanity faces.
>>  Negotiating a 'soft' landing
>>  will, by necessity involve some less than ideal
>>  options   So, while ethanol
>>  from corn doesn't make sense, switch grass in
>>  addition to energy from waste
>>  most likely does.  Switch grass can represent a
>>  highly efficient energy (and
>>  carbon negative) transfer process, and can be
>>  (should be) grown on marginal
>>  land that would otherwise not be used for anything
>>  but poor hay and/or
>>  grazing land.  You may wish to check out
>>  http://www.reap-canada.com/bio_and_climate_3_2.htm.
>>
>>  What would be very interesting, is to learn some of
>>  your ideas for designing
>>  waste management and efficient energy processes into
>>  urban housing (existing
>>  and new).
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>
>
>
>
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-- 


"The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the
measure of our bodies are the same..."
     	                               - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief
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