[Greenbuilding] change agent, was radiant boiler
Drew A. Gillett P.E.
deaneg at hotmail.com
Sat Feb 10 08:49:49 CST 2007
if you are modifying your advice to make a buck, that would be
unprofessional, if you continue to woek with clients who won't take the
plunge despite your best efforts (as david did getting good advice on the
tank question) then you are wasting your time.( and the client is paying for
good advice he doesn't use they'll figuyre it out.
an analogy would be how would you feel if one of your clients used one of
the conventioal or grey products despite your advice and you specefied it
and then 10 years down the road his kids succomb to whateverer dreaded
disease you thougth it might cause.?
i've heard the " we'll put in solar in the futrutre just put in the pipes
now " argument so often that i could puke. it never happens. save the money
on the pipes and find a new client . sometimes they need to hear youfeel
that strongly. the situation in energy was desperate 30 years
ago, now it is nigh too late.
cheers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirsten A Flynn" <kir at declan.com>
To: "Drew A. Gillett P.E." <deaneg at hotmail.com>
Cc: "David Seth Melchert" <dmelchert at earthlink.net>; "Greenbuilder list"
<greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:56 PM
Subject: change agent, was radiant boiler
>I do think that if you alienate your client you lose the referral. If you
>cannot stay in business you lose the chance to be a change agent.
>
> I see my job as an interior designer to educate each client one step
> closer to a green lifestyle. When a client comes to me as a green
> interior designer, I might push them to do an extremely green product.
> If someone comes to me for conventional interior design work, I educate
> them on the most dangerous IAQ issues, try to get VOC's out of the home
> and cleaning process. There are certain product I feel are too dangerous
> to spec, and some have some gray area. How far I can take a client
> depends on where they start off. I cannot take every client to radical
> green purchasing, they just would not accept it. However I can educate
> each client a little. Each person should be a change agent in the way
> that suits their strongest ability. If your style is to be a gentle
> convincer, that is how you should push the 'green' agenda. There are
> some practitioners that are good at being the authority, the. enforcer.
> I would be extremely bad at this, and would be an ineffective change
> agent if I tried to run my business that way.
>
> Is that too wimpy? Perhaps, but I have a family I have to help support.
>
> Kirsten A Flynn
> Sustainable Home
> kir at declan.com
> 650-855-9476
>
> On Feb 7, 2007, at 6:25 PM, Drew A. Gillett P.E. wrote:
>
>> learn to fire the client-- works for rg vanderweil and marc rosenbaum
>>
>> you ask for advice and then reject it with the same old tired arguments
>> (too many redwoods, but in the future when they get logged, we'll
>> consider
>> solar "in the future") wow no solar for two futures just like you.
>>
>> sorry to be blunt , but get some backbone.
>>
>> so the decison is to buy an even more expensive unecessary tank and not
>> use
>> it. great
>>
>> sorry to be blunt, but you asked.
>>
>> the future is now
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Seth Melchert" <dmelchert at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Greenbuilder list" <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Radiant heat boiler
>>
>>
>>> Thank you to all who offered such a well-considered response to my
>>> query
>>> yesterday.
>>>
>>> A few clarifications:
>>>
>>> The home owner already nixed solar hot water panels - it was my first
>>> suggestion a year ago when we first started planning. Most of the house
>>> is shaded by a grove of redwoods.
>>>
>>> I mis-stated the BTU's of the Baxi. Its input is 126K BTU.
>>>
>>> GFX/Power Pipe is not really a possibility due to a whole number of
>>> logistical/engineering reasons I won't elaborate here.
>>>
>>> Many of you suggested I help the owners change their habits. This is a
>>> tricky issue - those of us on this list are quite enthusiastic about
>>> changing our behavior, but many (I would venture most) Americans are
>>> more convenience and results driven (didn't Amory Lovins state,
>>> "Americans don't care if their power comes from nuclear or solar, they
>>> just want cold beer and hot showers").
>>>
>>> The Baxi 310 is 85% efficient, but the Baxi HT 330 is a condensing
>>> unit
>>> and runs in the mid 90's I believe.
>>>
>>> Yes, George, the floors are to be well - insulated for radiant heat.
>>> The
>>> remodeled house design is carefully crafted for a whole number
>>> Architectural characteristics. Hot air duct pathways prove challenging
>>> in places where feeder pipes for the radiant are easy to distribute.
>>> And
>>> they chose the radiant largely for the comfort they experience with it.
>>>
>>> The homeowner is not likely to try a new boiler system that not even
>>> the
>>> employees at HSC have heard of. Who knows how they hold up, how well
>>> the
>>> company provides service, etc. But I do look forward to seeing how the
>>> Phoenix Combi does over time.
>>>
>>> One of the first suggestions posted was to have an indirect tank for
>>> DHW
>>> that is heated by the Baxi. This is probably what we will do - replace
>>> the 21 gallon Baxi modula with a well-insulated 80 gallon tank. It
>>> obviates the considerable cost of a secondary system. This will also
>>> provide future capacity for solar panel feed in the future.
>>>
>>> I admire the considerable expertise represented by this group. Thank
>>> you
>>> for chiming in.
>>>
>>> Seth Melchert
>>> Oakland CA
>>>
>>> David Seth Melchert wrote:
>>>> We have started a large residential remodel in Orinda, CA. The 2,800
>>>> sf
>>>> house will be heated with radiant floor heat. We were planning to use
>>>> a
>>>> Baxi Luna 330 instant heater for combined radiant and domestic hot
>>>> water. I really love the Baxi Luna for its compact design and
>>>> simplicity
>>>> of installation, not to mention its general high efficiency.
>>>>
>>>> However we are concerned about its capacity to serve the demands of a
>>>> 3
>>>> bath house. The homeowner consulted with a supplier who suggested that
>>>> 5
>>>> gpm, delta 70 degrees is the minimum required, more than the 144,000
>>>> BTU's the Baxi Luna provides. Baxi has a new Modula supplemental tank
>>>> that holds 21 gallons and serves as a kind of buffer for temporary
>>>> high
>>>> demands. My homeowner is concerned this will not cut it. They are
>>>> edging
>>>> towards having separate heat sources, such as a Noritz or an efficient
>>>> large tank for DHW.
>>>>
>>>> Here are my questions: how many gpm should we figure for hot water
>>>> needs
>>>> at any one time, and how often might a family of four run into
>>>> insufficient hot water using the Baxi? Would you agree that providing
>>>> separate heat sources for radiant and DHW would be the best path?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Seth Melchert
>>>> Oakland CA
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
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>> publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
>> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
>>
>
> Kirsten A Flynn
> Sustainable Home
> kir at declan.com
> 650-855-9476
>
>
>
>
>
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