[Greenbuilding] Energy Efficiency and Fossil Fuels: Isn'ttherea bigger picture?

Sat Feb 24 10:14:29 CST 2007

I'm a political activist, so I have worked fairly steadily on the macro
issues (such as fighting the current world order--i.e., wealth and power
mongering--that is so wholly unsustainable). But when you are building your
own place, you naturally focus on the micro-issues. However, that place may
become a model of sustainability that others can use and look to, thus
having an impact on a larger scale. As a grassroots activist, changing the
system from the bottom up (micro to macro)--such as implementing real
participatory democracy--is the most viable strategy; while attempting to
effect damage-control through the pathetic public institutions that
currently do not serve the public very well.

Cheers!

Mary Bull, Co-director
Greenwood Earth Alliance, Save the Redwoods - Boycott the Gap Campaign
252 Frederick, San Francisco, CA 94117 http://www.gapsucks.org
Chalice Farm and Sustainable Living Center, 748 Montgomery Rd, Sebastopol CA
95472
415-731-7924 - 415-509-1188 chalicenew at earthlink.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Morin" <mikemorin at earthlink.net>
To: "Greenbuilding" <GREENBUILDING at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Energy Efficiency and Fossil Fuels: Isn'ttherea
bigger picture?

> You all talk about micro issues, and don't get me wrong your discussions
are
> worthy.
>
> But does anybuddy in the green building "movement" think about the macro
> issues of what we build rather than the micro issues (i.e. the particulars
> of what and how)?
>
> What I am referring to is the massive rebuilding of our neighborhoods,
> downtown and village centers, and all, with the purpose of drastically
> reducing the dependence on the automobile and the terrible squandering of
> fossil fuels that are going on presently. Fossil fuels as burnt for the
> inefficient transportation systems that we have now and are a tremendous
> opportunity cost for things like heating, cooking, and (a reduced amount
of)
> electricity, both now and in the future. In other words, if you burn it in
a
> car, it is not available for heating a building. If you burn it now, it
> won't be available later.
>
> Our progeny and others are going to look back and probably curse "US" for
> the ways that "we" are squandering.
>
> I'd  like to "hear" your views.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Workin' for peace and cooperation,
>
> Mike Morin
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Corwyn" <corwyn at midcoast.com>
> To: "Mary Bull - Greenwood Earth Alliance" <chalicenew at earthlink.net>
> Cc: "Greenbuilding" <GREENBUILDING at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Energy Efficiency and Fossil Fuels: Isn't
> therea bigger picture?
>
>
> >
> > On Feb 24, 2007, at 01:27, Mary Bull - Greenwood Earth Alliance wrote:
> >
> >> Maize
> >> Greetings, Greenbuilders,
> >
> >> But isn't there a bigger picture that should be informing our choices
> >> at
> >> this point? Should we buy fossil-fuel-powered appliances, when we are
> >> 1.)
> >> polluting the atmosphere with them, and 2.)  running out of fossil
> >> fuels?
> >
> > Well, all my appliances use fossil fuels.  The electric ones just do it
> > more expensively.
> >
> >>
> >> Can we ever anticipate a clean-burning gas that is viable (i.e.,
> >> something
> >> that does not rely on fossil fuels and that does not require
> >> ecosystems and
> >> farmland conversions to grow it)? Methane, for instance--which now
> >> outweighs
> >> auto emissions in its contribution to global warming. Does burning it
> >> solve
> >> that greenhouse gas problem, and will we ever be able to bottle it like
> >> propane?
> >
> > Burning methane produces CO2, at the rate of 2 CO2 for 1 C2H6.  The
> > number I have heard is that methane is 1000 times worse when it comes
> > to green house effect.  So, burning would be better than releasing it.
> > Bottling it isn't a problem, that I know of.  Gathering it from it
> > sources is trickier.  But to the extent feasible, it is a clear win.
> >
> > Hydrogen can be converted from water with electricity, so if clean
> > electricity is available, clean hydrogen can be as well.
> >
> >> Other candidates in the fore-seeable future, so that we can view
> >> our use of gas or propane as a temporary, stop-gap measure, and
> >> convert our
> >> appliances to the new, clean source sometime in the foreseeable future?
> >
> > I did some research on this awhile back, and the consensus seemed to be
> > that converting my stove, water heater, and fridge from propane to
> > either methane or hydrogen would be no harder than it was converting
> > from natural gas to propane.
> >>
> >> Which is better: To go with the more energy-efficient propane for these
> >> functions of supplemental heat, supplemental hot water, and cooking,
> >> or the
> >> least energy-efficient solar-generated-but-through-the-grid
> >> electricity? Or
> >> should I return to wood-burning, which becomes totally unviable if
> >> everybody
> >> does it?
> >
> > Comparing the embodied energy in enough solar panels to run your
> > appliances against the fossil fuels is tricker than I am willing to
> > try.
> >
> > I choose fueled appliances where I did, for their performance now.  I
> > don't know where the whole energy thing is going, so I didn't try to
> > second guess it.   Breakthroughs in any of a dozen technologies will
> > completely change the balance.
> >
> > Thank You Kindly,
> >
> > Corwyn
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Corwyn
> > Kermit didn't know the half of it...
> > http://www.greenfret.com/
> > corwyn at greenfret.com
> >
> >
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>
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