[Greenbuilding] [BULK] Question about appliances

Wed Jul 4 08:05:45 EDT 2007

This is a great tip that people often forget.  Local government and utility
companies often have rebate opportunities available for energy star
appliances.

Regarding some of the other comments below here are a few things to keep in
mind:

-- The difference in energy use of Energy Star appliances is relatively
small on some specific appliances because the E* program forced the industry
to do better.  It was not that long ago that an E* fridge was 30% more
efficient than the federal minimum standard.  It turned out that it was not
that big of a leap for manufacturers to come up with models that could
perform at this level consistently so EPA had to revise their standard. So
now E* fridges are only 15% better than federal minimums -- because they
succeeded in raising the baseline.  So an Energy Star fridge bought today
performs 15% better than a standard new fridge and 40% better than one
purchased in 2001.  A similar thing happened with room air conditioners.

-- In our consulting work, we find consistently that Energy Star
refrigerators and dishwashers win hands-down when comparing the energy
savings to the incremental cost of going from a standard model to energy
star.  Interestingly, energy star dishwashers also come out ahead on water
savings when compared to hand washing because most people leave the water
running at a rate of about 2.2 gallons per minute when hand washing compared
to 15 gallons per cycle (some models use even less) to clean a full load in
the dishwasher.

-- Although the clothes washer technology is not yet at the point where E*
appliances can be considered economical all the time, it is worth
considering paying the extra money if you pay high water bills.  We've found
that water/sewer costs from municipal supplies often rival residential
heating/cooling bills.  In this case, the savings may in fact justify the
incremental cost especially when you factor in shorter drying times.

As with any energy analysis, it all depends on how much you are paying per
Btu for the fuel you are using.  Does it make sense to switch from electric
to gas/propane?  It depends on how much these fuels cost in your particular
region.

There still is no such thing as an Energy Star water heater.  The standards
are currently in draft form and can be viewed on EPA website
www.energystar.gov.

-Courtney

-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of arthur
landerholm
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:36 PM
To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Question about appliances

One thing that you might check into is whether your local government or
utility gives a rebate for buying energy star rated appliances.  I recently
bought a new, $400 refrigerator and got $100 back from my local government
for buying a energy star model.  I might have bought the energy star model
anyway -- the energy savings would have paid for the extra cost of the unit
(although not by a whole lot) over its lifetime -- but the rebate made it a
much easier call.  

-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Lile
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:22 PM
To: Bobbi Chukran; greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Question about appliances

Energy star appliances are an interesting dilemma.  Some of them save just a
tiny amount of energy.  I looked into the economics of several, and
concluded that the economics often isn't too good.  

I didn't see a big advantage in energy star washers and dryers, when I was
looking at the economics.  Economics counts here, because I have a fixed
amount of capitol to spend on energy conservation projects, and I want to
get the most bang for my buck, both in energy and economic terms.  If I can
save a few bucks on a fridge and invest a few more bucks on a solar hot
water heater, I might be money and energy ahead.  .  

Water heaters might be an exception, energy star water heaters IIRC did have
a decent payback.  

I ended up deciding to buy the cheapest model fridge that was still energy
star rated, seeing little or no difference in most cases between that and
the most expensive one. A fridge uses a little energy all the time, and adds
up to a large amount of energy over a year.  I ended up buying some used
dishwashers, washers and dryers, that probably weren't energy star units
when they were made, but the embodied energy is already spent and they were
dirt cheap.  Most of the energy used by a washer is probably hot water
energy, and having an efficient hot water system is a big deal. 

I wonder if energy star rating includes a credit for energy used in
manufacturing the unit?  Sometimes if you examine the numbers, it doesn't
look like the energy star rated units are that much better.  What goes in to
the decision to rate something energy star or not? 

Your Mileage May Vary

For example if you are on solar electricity, where conserving every watt
counts, then spending three times the price on a fridge makes sense.  If
your electricity is expensive, then the economics make more sense, or if you
are just bent on conserving as much as possible (which I often am) then
energy star stuff can make sense.  But just buying an energy star appliance
blindly without checking to see if it is really saving you much energy or
money isn't what I'd recommend.  

--Lawrence Lile

________________________________

From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org on behalf of Bobbi Chukran
Sent: Mon 7/2/2007 11:25 PM
To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [BULK] [Greenbuilding] Question about appliances

Hi all,

We closed on our new downsized house this morning, and are pondering
whether to buy new appliances or keep our old ones until they quit
working.  We have a washer, electric dryer and refrigerator that are
all about 11 years old.

They are still in good working order.  Does it make sense "green
wise" to replace them now, or wait?  How much in energy $$ could we
conceivably save if we bought new Energy Star replacements?

And speaking of that, we bought a new freezer not long ago from
Sears.  They didn't have any Energy Star models that were
self-defrosting.  The salesperson said that we'd spend energy
defrosting the things and it would all even out.  I felt bad about
not buying an ES freezer, but at the time we had no choice.

BTW, our house does have natural gas for the range, but not for the
dryer.  We were wondering about the economics of adding a gas hook-up
so we could get a gas (and not electric) dryer.  Would that make
sense?

Are there any resources online for comparing old vs. new as far as
appliances go?

We naturally are trying to watch the budget, especially since we also
have to put an exhaust vent in for the gas range (it horrifies me to
see how  many of the houses just have a recirculating fan---haven't
they heard of carbon monoxide???), a dehumidifier and whole house
filter in the AC unit.

And a house full of new flooring.  Did I mention that the whole house
is carpeted, and I have chemical sensitivities?  Ugh.

Thanks....

bobbi c.

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