[Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: Super Therm Paint

Wed Mar 7 12:31:17 CST 2007

A local green building store is pitching this stuff
and I was of course skeptical, so I appreciate all the
input.  The owner's argument is that all batt
insulation (glass, cotton/denim, rockwool and
cellulose I'm assuming) loses about half of its
R-value at as little as 1 percent humidity.  He was
saying that the testing on batts is done at 70 degrees
F, with 0 percent humidity and 5mph wind.  His
argument then is that all batt insulation is totally
useless with any humidity levels.  Do y'all have
thoughts/seen studies on that?

Here's some interesting links for more info on the
ceramic paints:

http://www.tprl.com/Stherm.htm

http://www.energyideas.org/default.cfm?o=h,g,gs,ds&c=z,z,reflective%20coatings*,1510

Sounds like their selling snake oil to me.  Yes, it's
good for radiation issues, but claiming an R-value is
a fraud.

Thanks for the input!

Cheers,
Bill Updike

--- Keith Winston <keith at earthsunenergy.com> wrote:

> Let it be mythbusters. I've got work to do.
> 
> No offense, of course. Your intention is good :-)
> 
> Also, the chance of getting a pint out of them to do
> a controlled test 
> -- hmm, let me see -- that would be zero.
> 
> K
> 
> Lawrence Lile wrote:
> > Kieth, it might be interesting to talk them out of
> a pint of this stuff,
> > and set up an experiment.  It is possible that a
> buddy of mine still has
> > his old insulation test box, which is a big foam
> insulated box with
> > temperature sensors inside.  Hey, it's either us,
> or Mythbusters, right?
> >
> >  
> >  
> > Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> > [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org]
> On Behalf Of Keith
> > Winston
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:47 AM
> > To: Greenbuilder list
> > Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] Super Therm
> Paint
> > Importance: Low
> >
> > Yes, if the foil is functioning as an air barrier,
> that can be enormous.
> >
> > If the foil is functioning as a radiant barrier
> (with associated air 
> > space) that can be big. But these are not the
> claims that are often 
> > made. Here's a direct quote from Supertherm's
> site:
> >
> > Recently VTEC labs issue an *RE-19.3* insulation
> factor per coat as the 
> > ASTM C236 test conducted demonstrated that
> *SUPERTHERM* blocked * 99.5%*
> >
> > of the heat proving to be *240%* more efficient
> than fiberglass BATT 
> > insulation. *No other R-19 insulator can claim
> that!*. *No Fiberglass*, 
> > *No Foam*, *No Cellulose*, *No other single
> ceramic paint!*
> > But why stop there?
> > \
> > *SUPERTHERM* *Is The Only True RE 28.5 Insulation
> Paint in this Planet 
> > (1exterior coat plus one interior coat)
> > *
> > Well, that is going to make our building projects
> a LOT easier. And 
> > exactly when did this "RE" metric become
> standardized? Hmmm, maybe I'll 
> > do a little web search on R-equivalent.. Ah,
> here's something:
> >
> >
>
http://www.protek-usa.com/PDF_Files/R%20Value%20Equivalent.pdf
> >
> > Let's see, protek -- gee, that's the manufacturer
> of ANOTHER CERAMIC 
> > PAINT! So it's gotta be true, else how could they
> be so consistent?
> >
> > Still, like the conscientious little doobie that I
> am, I went back to 
> > their site, searching around for any real evidence
> that any reputable 
> > and verifiable testing had been done. None! Just
> their claims. And 
> > that's been the way it has been with every other
> ceramic paint I've 
> > tried looking into.
> >
> > I think around the turn of the century (that is,
> the 19th century) 
> > congress passed a law forbidding people to
> petition congress for 
> > scientific grants (apparently that was done back
> then) for perpetual 
> > motion/energy machines. They'd had enough. I'm
> trying to catch up with 
> > their wisdom.
> >
> > OOPS: a web search uncovers that actually they
> accepted a petition as 
> > late as 1917, finally dismissing it in 1918, then
> instituting the ban, 
> > and finally burning all the related materials to
> such claims in 1930.
> >
> >
>
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/1986/1/1986_1_58.sh
> > tml
> >
> > Burned everything! Do I see a conspiracy? Maybe
> there is such a thing 
> > after all!
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > Nick Pine wrote:
> >   
> >> Keith Winston <keith at earthsunenergy.com>
> >>
> >>   
> >>     
> >>> ... The whole concept that you can have an R-10
> in a paint-thickness
> >>> layer is ridiculous, IMO: that's better than a
> pure vacuum.
> >>>     
> >>>       
> >> A horizontal foil with a large air gap below can
> lessen downward
> >> heatflow, esp at low temps. The ASHRAE HOF lists
> US R8.17
> >> for an e = 0.05 foil with a 3.5" airspace and a
> 50 F mean temp and
> >> a 30 F temp diff and R10.32 at 0 F with a 10 F
> temp diff. Some
> >> ice rinks have low-e ceilings. Ceramic paint
> tests often seem to
> >> confuse insulation and sun reflection.
> >>
> >>   
> >>     
> >>> Anything OTHER than anecdotal information would
> be very welcome.
> >>>     
> >>>       
> >> I'd like to find a ceiling paint with e < 0.1
> that doesn't look like
> >>     
> > foil,
> >   
> >> but the higher-e versions below look like scruffy
> foil...
> >>
> >>
> >>     
> >
>
http://www.rima.net/pdf_files/Evaluation%20of%20Coatings%20for%20Use%20a
> > s%20Interior%20Radiation%20Control%20Coatings.pdf
> >   
> >> The HOF lists R1.58 for upward heatflow and R1.89
> for horizontal
> >> heatflow and R3.86 for downward heatflow at 50 F
> with e = 0.2.
> >>
> >> I'm
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Greenbuilding email list
> >> List info:
> >>     
> >
>
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.or
> > g
> >   
> >> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   
> >>     
> >
> >   
> 
> -- 
> Keith Winston
> Earth Sun Energy Systems
> Hyattsville, MD 20781
> 301-980-6325
> send me mail at 
> keith at the company below
> www.EarthSunEnergy.com
> 
> 
> 
=== message truncated ===

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