[Greenbuilding] eco fireplaces

[David Bergman]

Thanks you to all for the input. The question of whether there should 
be a fireplace at all given its use is a valid one. It's completely 
true that it is not necessary as it will not be used for primary (or 
really even secondary) heating and cannot be rationalized from that 
point of view. However, there is a counter argument that not 
everything in design has to be rationalized. For some, that's the 
rebuttal to an extreme Papanek-ian view.

A decision on whether to have a fireplace on this project will be a 
discussion with the clients looking at the satisfaction it will or 
will not add to their lives in the house, in relationship to issues 
of cost and environmentalism. The latter will likely be more 
emphasized by me than by them.

My leaning at the moment is to look at the denatured alcohol units 
such as "EcoSmart Fire" (same as "EcoGreenFire?"). These are supposed 
to burn clean and are suitable for occasional use such as might 
happen in this house. The thermal mass type units, which are more 
efficient at utilizing the heat output, do not, I think, make as much 
sense here since the fireplace is likely to be turned on and off on 
short intermittent cycles. So a long warm up period and longer 
lasting heat, while a better use of the energy, is not as useful in this case.

I'm still interested in everyone's thoughts. The question raises some 
very interesting points about what responsible design entails in 
terms of personal satisfaction vs societal impacts, and more 
specifically the relationship between ecodesign and sacrifice.

David
DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291

At 01:03 AM 4/16/2008, sat jiwan ikle-khalsa wrote:

>I'm kind of with Corwyn on this one.  If the owners won't be getting 
>1/3 (at least) or more of their heat from the fireplace, it should 
>probably be skipped.
>
>Educating the clients is a big part of green building.  Now, if 
>they're going to get an ambiance fireplace regardless, it'd be good 
>to get a "greener" version.  Multifuel pellet stoves (wood pellet, 
>corn, other biomass...) CAN BE more convenient than conventional 
>wood stoves, and hooked up to thermostats/timers.
>
>I think it's more about how easily you can get which type of fuel 
>locally. Sustainably grown corn, local wood pellets, local wood...??
>-sat jiwan
>
>~ ~ ~ ~ please use my permanent email address: 
>satjiwan at alumni.brandeis.edu ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>Some of my recent projects:green house renovation photos - 
>www.flickr.com/photos/satjiwan
>Save Our Sky -
>corn stove cooperative - www.saveoursky.comTakoma Park Green 
>Building Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TP-Greenbuilding/
>
>
>
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:05:04 -0400
> > From: Corwyn <corwyn at midcoast.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] eco fireplaces
> > To: David Bergman <bergman at cyberg.com>
> > Cc: Greenbuilding list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> > Message-ID: <ba4e9ea850ec44508160990448ec35b8 at midcoast.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2008, at 10:19, David Bergman wrote:
> >
> > > Is there such a thing a an eco fireplace? I'm working on a weekend
> > > house where we'd like to add one for ambiance (as opposed to for
> > > utility, though it should of course not waste its heat). I've so far
> > > been researching efficiently ventilated wood burners (advantages:
> > > using a more renewable resource than gas, burning cleaner than
> > > conventional wood fp's), gas burners (cleaner but use a non-renewable
> > > resource, and not as "cozy' feeling), flue-less Eco-smart alcohol
> > > burners (potential CO issue? and expensive?), high thermal mass wood
> > > burners e.g. Tulikivi (wood bruning, expensive?), wood pellet burners
> > > (pellet supply issue?).
> >
> > No, there is no such thing as an eco-ambiance-fireplace.  It doesn't
> > matter how efficiently you burn energy that you don't need.  Sorry.
> >
> > Thank You Kindly,
> >
> > Corwyn
> >
> > --
> > Corwyn
> > Kermit didn't know the half of it...
> > http://www.greenfret.com/
> > corwyn at greenfret.com
> >
>
>
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