[Greenbuilding] Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 20, Issue 13

Sun Feb 10 08:11:47 CST 2008

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From: <greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:00 PM
Subject: Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 20, Issue 13


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: [BULK] ERV's (Ted Inoue)
>   2. Re: [BULK] ERV's (George J. Nesbitt)
>   3. Re: Recommendations for stand-alone dehumidifiers? (Nick Pine)
>   4. Canadian HRVs (Stephen Collette)
>   5. HRV's (JAY WALSH)
>   6. Re: U-value of single pane plus wood-frame storm (Nick Pine)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:16:31 -0500
> From: "Ted Inoue" <tedinoue at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] ERV's
> To: geoedb at idiom.com
> Cc: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> <50d688f80802082016q4e3a4dccv7232c70ddabe3db5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I've had one of these running in my own home for the last two years. I 
> like
> trying leading edge products before sticking them in clients' homes.
>
> The unit is very efficient at heat transfer when the wheel spins. I'm 
> having
> issues with mine now where sometimes the wheel won't start, I think a 
> pulley
> is loose or something.
>
> Given that experience, I'm a bit leery of the unit. I like the super high
> efficiency but adding the spinning disk adds a mechanical component - one
> more thing to wear out and maintain.
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 11:08 PM, George J. Nesbitt <geoedb at idiom.com> wrote:
>
>> Sterling, Ultimate Air Recuperator www.Ultimateair.com
>> ECM Variable speed motors, 34W at 66cfm on low.
>> My only complaint is L.L. didn't design the electronics, and it is very
>> tight and hard to wire. ;-)
>> I just got my first unit up and running before the new year on a Passive
>> House project in Berkeley CA.
>>
>> Opps, I'm not a Canadian, don't take my advice ;-) (although I have been
>> there twice, first to build an all wood timber framed covered pedestrian
>> bridge in Guelph, and the second to build a timber framed outdoor
>> pavilion in Pentanguesine, but that has nothing to do with ERV's)
>>
>> Lawrence Lile wrote:
>> > A friend of mine is working on manufactured housing that will be sold 
>> > in
>> > Canada.  Apparently Energy Recovery Ventilators are required.  Any of
>> > you Canadians have any recommendations - experiences good and bad -
>> > caveats?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Lawrence Lile, PE, LEED AP
>> > Project Solutions Engineering
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Greenbuilding email list
>> >      Environmentally-preferable design, construction, building elements
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>     Environmentally-preferable design, construction, building elements
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:31:05 -0800
> From: "George J. Nesbitt" <geoedb at idiom.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] ERV's
> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <47AD2C89.8060905 at idiom.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Ted Inoue wrote:
>> I've had one of these running in my own home for the last two years. I
>> like trying leading edge products before sticking them in clients' homes.
>>
> I like using my clients as gunne pigs, it's funner that way, I usually
> don't let them know. That way by the time I can finaly afford to get to
> my house I will know what works. ;-)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 03:25:46 -0500
> From: "Nick Pine" <nick at early.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Recommendations for stand-alone
> dehumidifiers?
> To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000f01c86af5$5f1088b0$2d01a8c0 at Nicklap>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Bobbi Chukran <bobbi at bobbichukran.com> writes:
>
>> We've had quotes of around $7,000 from two different companies so
>> far...
>
> Wow. How about 2 $80 window ACs from WalMart with a single $30
> humidistat and a single $16 heating/cooling thermostat from Grainger?
> Run the indoor AC when the house temp is less than 70 F and the outdoor
> AC when it's higher, on low speed, with a little tape over the outlet
> grills to reduce the airflow and lower the air temp to 40 F so it
> dehumidifies better?
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:11:45 -0500
> From: Stephen Collette <stephen at yourhealthyhouse.ca>
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] Canadian HRVs
> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP05BE6C6E02CC1C224EEF81AD280 at CEZ.ICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Hi Lawrence,
>
> I too like the Lifebreath, as with Ward, but I like the aluminium core
> for the air quality. No blowing air across plastic cores, but metal. I
> have had sensitive clients react to the plastic bits. You will pay a
> bit more for the metal over plastic, but a better quality unit in my
> opinion.
>
> Regardless of what you get, make sure it's balanced!!!!!  HVAC
> contractor must prove it's balanced before they get paid, in my
> opinion. I see it too often.
>
> Stephen
>
> Stephen Collette BBEC, LEED AP
> Principal
> Your Healthy House - Indoor Environmental Testing & Building Consulting
> www.yourhealthyhouse.ca
> stephen at yourhealthyhouse.ca
> 705.652.5159
>>  I chose to use the Lifebreath
>> system (www.lifebreath.com),  The other thing I
>> liked about the Lifebreath is that is uses an aluminum core,
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Ward Edwards
>> ward at buildgreen.ca
>>
>>
>> Lawrence Lile wrote:
>>> A friend of mine is working on manufactured housing that will be
>>> sold in
>>> Canada.  Apparently Energy Recovery Ventilators are required.  Any of
>>> you Canadians have any recommendations - experiences good and bad -
>>> caveats?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:35:12 -0500
> From: "JAY WALSH" <jaywalsh at usa.net>
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] HRV's
> To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <769mBiRIm2090S02.1202578512 at cmsweb02.cms.usa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Lawrence,
>
> While I?m not from Canada (my wife?s Canadian does that count) I do have
> some experience with cold climates as I designed and built super insulated
> houses and community buildings throughout Alaska in the 80?s. Also, in the
> early 80?s I worked on some of the earliest versions of HRV?s (then
> referred to as air-to-air heat exchangers) in a lab where we could bring 
> down
> the temperature to minus 30 degrees F.
>
> In my current work as an Energy Star rater as well as a rater for the 
> USGBC
> LEED for Homes green building program I have been involved in the 
> installation
> and testing of many HRV?s from various manufacturers. Most designs are 
> very
> similar. Here are some of the highlights of what I have seen, tested and
> feedback from others.
> The comments refer only to independently ducted systems and not those
> installed as part of the homes HVAC ducted system.
> 1. While the ECM motors are very efficient and use less electricity (my
> preference) they are noisier and produce a hum similar to a refrigerator.
> Locate these and duct them in a way to avoid the transmission of this 
> noise.
> 2. When choosing the exterior supply and return locations avoid these
> locations: Asphalt or composite type roofs, or south or west facing walls 
> if
> vinyl sided, when heated by the sun they off-gas and this will be drawn 
> into
> the home. Also avoid locations where cars maybe parked and idling. Don?t
> laugh, I?ll seen all these things.
> 3. Do not locate the HRV in a cold attic or similar location, and in very 
> cold
> climates be sure to provide for a connection of the HRV to the homes drain
> system. This will be necessary for when the system needs to defrost (which 
> it
> will need if the outside temp falls below -10 F).
> 4. Locate the HRV in an accessible place so you can remove and clean (or
> replace) the filters and inspect the condensate trays.
> 5. The filters in these devices are only designed to keep out large 
> particles
> from contamination of the exchanger. There are better filters which fit 
> these
> devices and even MERV filters. Should you plan to use another type of 
> filter
> for the system it will add air flow restriction and will affect the air
> exchange rate of the device. Consider the size of the HRV if you plan to 
> add
> additional filtration.
> 6. Flow restriction from ducts. Consider carefully the location of the HRV 
> to
> provide the shortest run of duct work.  The longer the ducts, the greater 
> the
> number of bends, and the type of duct used will all play into the 
> performance
> of the system.  Keep the runs short as possible, use rigid ducts over flex
> ducts where ever you can. If you have very uneven lengths of runs on the
> exhaust side, consider some method of balancing damper in the system to 
> adjust
> for equal exhaust from bathrooms.
> 7. Have the system tested to insure a balanced supply and exhaust so you 
> do
> not create a positive or negative pressure in the house.
> 8. Sizing formula for continuous home ventilation from ASHARE Standard 
> 62.2.
> (Number of bedrooms +1) x 7.5 + (Homes conditioned square footage / 100).
> Example (3 BR +1) x 7.5 + (2400 SF/100) = 54 CFM of continuous 
> ventilation.
>
> I hope this is some help.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jay Walsh
>
>
>
>> Lawrence Lile wrote:
>> > A friend of mine is working on manufactured housing that will be sold 
>> > in
>> > Canada.  Apparently Energy Recovery Ventilators are required.  Any of
>> > you Canadians have any recommendations - experiences good and bad -
>> > caveats?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Lawrence Lile, PE, LEED AP
>> > Project Solutions Engineering
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:59:41 -0500
> From: "Nick Pine" <nick at early.com>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] U-value of single pane plus wood-frame
> storm
> To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000b01c86b45$8b89d2c0$2d01a8c0 at Nicklap>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>> Reuben Deumling <9watts at gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> My question is if there is a simple , or inexpensive, way to assess
>>> U-value. Now that I acquired an infrared thermometer (Fluke 63) I'm
>>> able to measure the temperature drop across the two panes vs. the
>>> drop across the single pane window in the front door, but this is of
>>> course not the same as measuring U-value. Any ideas?
>
> You might buy and install one NFRC-certified U0.3 window and measure the
> indoor glass temp. If it's 70 F indoors and 30 F outdoors in the shade,
> (70-30)1ft^2xU0.3 = 21 Btu/h would flow through the indoor pane, which
> would make it 70-21/1.5 = 56 F, with a slow-moving indoor airfilm with a
> 1.5 Btu/h-F-ft^2 conductance. If the retrofit windows have equal or
> higher indoor glass temps at the same time, you could argue that they
> are U0.3 or less.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
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> End of Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 20, Issue 13
> *********************************************
>