[Greenbuilding] Lumber to Avoid + PLASTIC issues + Radioactive HVFA Concrete???

Tue Feb 19 09:52:30 CST 2008

Good God, Tim, you are thorough--that was an old email!...

Thanks for the info on trex and pure vs mixed plastic--I haven't used it in
years. I'm doing everything salvage wood or HDPE now--preferably
recycled--there is no viable alternative for piping that I know of. (The
general rule is, the simpler the chemical compound the less polluting--e.g.,
HDPE vs PVC... In my research I discovered something cute: the term polymer,
came from "many C's"--as in Carbon and the French word for ocean, mer:
poly-mers!)

***What I would like to know is if PVC underground and in wells actually
leaches? I haven't been able to find this out. In Sonoma County, CA, well
pipes are made of PVC. Also, the pipes that are used for leach fields are
typically polystyrene. I know that the manufacture and burning of these
substances is a polluting, deadly affair, but once made and buried, do they
leach?***

***It was recently reported that the fly ash waste from coal-burning power
plants that has been used as a hardener to reduce the amount of cement used
in concrete may be radio-active (from nuclear power plants run by the same
utility company--I certainly wouldn't put it past them). Has anyone any more
info?*** I'm not using it in the cottage construction now.***

When I said the "life of a Doug fir," I meant the complete life of a Doug
fir through the old-growth phase. I also am not into tree farms--they are
terribly destructive and, as I am sure you are aware, there is a strong
movement against them and their phony FSC certification (World Rainforest
Movement). I am developing my own small woodlot on our five acres.

About recycled steel--Isn't it/'wasn't it common knowledge (I read it so
many places) that first Japan, then China, imported all of our salvage steel
and reused it for all those products we buy back from them... Mining is
prohibitively destructive, and I will do anything to avoid it.

Cheers and Thanks!

Mary

Mary Bull, Co-director
Greenwood Earth Alliance, Save the Redwoods - Boycott the Gap Campaign
252 Frederick, San Francisco, CA 94117 http://www.gapsucks.org
Chalice Farm and Sustainable Living Center, 748 Montgomery Rd, Sebastopol CA
95472
415-731-7924 - 415-509-1188 chalicenew at earthlink.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Vireo Keating" <t.keating at rainforestrelief.org>
To: "Mary Bull - Greenwood Earth Alliance" <chalicenew at earthlink.net>;
<greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>; "Matthew Grove" <matthew at gdaaia.com>
Cc: <zerocut at aol.com>; <Greenframe at aol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Lumber to Avoid: Get Thee to the Salvage Yards
+ Confronting the Global Triple Crisis in DC Sep 14!!!

> Again, sorry for the response on this very old thread:
>
>
> Mary,
>
> I am in hearty agreement with most of what you posted here. A few things:
>
> Trex is, I believe, no longer made from post-consumer recycled
> plastic. And I don't think it was ever HDPE. Originally, they were
> using mixed plastics and plastic film. Now I believe it may be virgin
> plastic. Also, I'd simply not recommend plastic-wood composites. The
> wood component picks up moister and thus the product is not
> no-maintenance. All-plastic RPLs are very different animals. Truly
> no-maintenance.
>
> Second, when it comes to Doug fir vs. steel, I'd say it's very
> important to differentiate between old growth and tree-farm wood. A
> twenty-five-year-old Doug fir cut for two-by-fours ain't gonna come
> close to the embodied energy in steel, given the 65 - 75% of virgin
> steel in much of the steel sold in the USs (the steel industry claims
> a minimum of only 25% recycled content, last I checked). If one can
> assure that the steel one is buying is 100% PC, then great. But
> that's a tough thing to do in most of the country where mini-mills
> don't exist. When one walks into a Home Depot to buy steel studs,
> there's little chance of knowing the recycled content. That means
> that it could have come from Australia, Trinidad, Venezuela or
> anywhere. Massive dams on the rivers, charcoal production from old
> growth rainforests to smelt it - the list of peripheral destruction
> could be quite long, making that embodied energy larger than anything
> on Earth other than aluminum (imho).
>
> tim
>
> At 8:58 AM -0700 8/17/07, Mary Bull - Greenwood Earth Alliance wrote:
> >Matt and Greenbuilders!
> >
> >****Get thee to the salvage yards!**** Such yards also carry new
> >lumber from windblow or otherwise removed urban trees. I've gotten
> >all my lumber new and used from salvage yards, both for the building
> >of our cottage  and other structures at Chalice Farm, and for
> >repairs, remodel, and maintenance of our  building in San Francisco.
> >I also use non-wood building materials whenever possible, such as
> >recycled HDPE plastic (Trex), steel, and so on (YES, even with it's
> >embodied energy, steel is better than wood--the life of a Doug fir
> >embodies more carbon in a lifetime than its equivalent in steel)
> >
> >Buying new forest products contributes to the catastrophic resource
> >depletion planet earth is currently experiencing.
> >
> >Anyone in the DC area might consider going to what promises to be
> >one of the best teach-ins of our times: Confronting the Global
> >Triple Crisis: Climate Change, Peak Oil, and Global Resource
> >Depletion and Extinction put on by The International Forum on
> >Globalization www.ifg.org. I wish I could take off (by train, of
> >course!!!) and go, but I cannot...
> >
> >****Get thy head out of the sand!**** There is virtually no
> >sustainably logged wood to be had--a few pockets of
> >community/indigenous run forest ops in Canada perhaps--but anything
> >commercially logged by industrially-strength corporations is out,
> >FSC certified or not!
> >
> >Sorry to be the bearer or this bad news, Matt.
> >
> >BTW after much struggle with every person in pipeline: engineers,
> >contractors, and County, we have managed to use HDPE instead of PVC
> >for water, sewage, and electrical lines--evidently we are the first
> >in Sonoma County. Did I mention recently that since acting as my own
> >general contractor in the development of Chalice Farm, I have come
> >to hate the building trade? The worst depleters, polluters, and
> >wasters on earth!
> >
> >Also, I've started taking the train where I used to fly to lessen my
> >carbon footprint, and it's a wonderful mode of transportation--I
> >highly recommend it to all! Of course, it will only get better, fuel
> >and efficiency-wise--but anything is better than jet travel.
> >
> >Cheers and Best,
> >
> >Mary
> >
> >Mary Bull, Co-director
> >Greenwood Earth Alliance, Save the Redwoods - Boycott the Gap Campaign
> >252 Frederick, San Francisco, CA 94117 http://www.gapsucks.org
> >Chalice Farm and Sustainable Living Center, 748 Montgomery Rd,
> >Sebastopol CA 95472
> >415-731-7924 - 415-509-1188 chalicenew at earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Matthew Grove" <matthew at gdaaia.com>
> >To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:47 PM
> >Subject: [Greenbuilding] Lumber to Avoid
> >
> >
> >>  Does anyone know of a dependable resource that
> >>  identifies imported lumber that is or is not raised in a
> >>  sustainable manner or somehow rates lumber as to
> >>  its "green" value.
> >>
> >>  Matthew W. Grove AIA
> >>  Grove & Dall'Olio Architects PLLC
> >>  304 267-2120
> >>
> >>
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>
> -- 
>
>
> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the
> measure of our bodies are the same..."
>                                     - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief
> ____________________________________________
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