[Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System

Keith Winston keith at earthsunenergy.com
Thu Jan 3 21:43:56 CST 2008 

Hi Donald, who exactly are you talking about? As far as I can see, the 
Isomax site is bogus. I've looked at it before. You claim 100,000 low or 
zero energy homes, but I haven't seen 'em? Where are they? A google 
search on Isomax comes up essentially blank, which is funny for 
something that's been applied 100,000 times!? The Isomax site has almost 
no specifics. Three time nominee for Nobel? How can you know this? Nobel 
peace prize nominees are kept secret (except pre-1955: the list includes 
Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, btw). 

Clearly they've built one house using some interesting combination of 
home-built air to air heat exchanger (consisting of several hundreds of 
feet of stainless 6" flex duct threaded into 8"), near-house ground 
loops, and a roof integrated solar thermal system (aka Dawn Solar, which 
I have little faith in). There is no performance data on the website or 
associated download. The download/slide show seems to take credit for a 
bunch of buildings that don't appear to incorporate these systems at all 
(in fact, many are just renders, and likely not yet built at all).

I'd be interested in the name of this world expert, since it doesn't 
appear on the site as far as I see. And any further info suggesting this 
is something other than bogus.

Keith


Donald Eyermann wrote:
> Check out a World Expert. www.isomax-terrasol.de He is a three time nominee
> for the Nobel Peace Prize for about 100,000 Low and now Zero Energy Homes,
> built all over the world. He is a regular speaker at the International
> Conference on Global Warming and has a relationship with China to build a
> million energy efficient homes; to try to reduce their need for burning coal
> to condition their homes. About half a billion people are making a mass
> exodus from farms to the cities because they want western style conveniences
> and toys, just like us. Anyone in the Arizona area can attend a
> dinner/speech on January 14th at the Hilton Midtown in Phoenix at 6:00pm.
> Call www.encompmedia.com for reservations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Dusch, Jim E
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:16 PM
> To: Keith Winston; Sacie Lambertson
> Cc: Greenbuilding
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>
> If that first 6-10 feet (or more) of copper is in an unheated space, what's
> the best practice for freeze protection?  Up here in Maine the high has been
> a sunny beautiful 5 degrees today (which is balmy compared to what it'll be
> tonight) -- which is obviously one of those worst case situations that
> demands realistic proven technology, built bulletproof.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Keith Winston
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:25 PM
> To: Sacie Lambertson
> Cc: Greenbuilding
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>
> Hi Sacie,
>
> First, Pex-Al-Pex has much higher burst pressures/temps than Pex, so is much
> more suited to solar. It is still necessary to provide some buffer so it
> doesn't get heated to stagnation temperatures ever. 6 or more feet
>
> of copper is an option, as is (I suspect) a foot or two of a higher-temp
>
> lower-conducting plastic tubing, which I am exploring on a job. There is
>
> also a big difference with different solar collectors: evacuated tubes might
> stagnate to 340F, whereas flat plates are unlikely to surpass 250F
>
> or so. In any case, as soon as water is flowing these temps very very
> quickly diminish, typically into the 120-160F range, though that depends
>
> on insolation, collector, flow rate, fluid, etc. The only thing about mixing
> tube types is, connections are where leaks most commonly occur, so you'd
> like to either or both minimize them, keep them accessible, and
>
> put them where leaks won't ruin your house. As is so often the case, reality
> is likely to involve compromise. Good luck.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
> Sacie Lambertson wrote:
>   
>> When we built our house we plumbed it for a back-up solar water
>>     
> heating
>   
>> system.  Unfortunately this was before I learned that PEX could not be 
>> used.  Now I'm ready to complete the job (our propane bills have gone
>>     
> from
>   
>> $350/yr to $750/yr) but I'm told that AL PEX should NOT be used
>>     
> either, that
>   
>> it can't take the extreme heat of the glycol coming out of the solar
>>     
> panel.
>   
>> I would appreciate hearing some opinions and best advice on this.
>>     
> Copper is
>   
>> the only recommended carrier this knowledgeable source told me (though
>>     
> he
>   
>> had heard of using copper for the first six feet, with an alternative
>>     
> after
>   
>> that, but didn't think this a good idea either).  I really don't want
>>     
> to use
>   
>> copper if I can help it.
>>
>> A follow up question: what is the best insulator for the
>>     
> copper/alternative
>   
>> line which will have to be buried for 20 ft before it enters the
>>     
> house?  Yes
>   
>> I know that copper must be contained if it is going to be buried in
>>     
> the
>   
>> ground.
>> Thanks
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