[Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System

Fri Jan 4 15:51:08 CST 2008

Hi Donald,

You had originally said the Nobel Peace Prize, not Physics (scroll 
below). I guess that was a misstatement - oops.

I still don't see his name on an "intro screen", I don't know why that 
would work differently for me than you, but browsers can be funny 
perhaps. When I google him, I mostly get stuff about ICF buildings, and 
as far as I can tell the buildings on the site are mostly ICF buildings. 
I can't tell that there's anything else special about them (except the 
one I mentioned before, which has some curious combination of air heat 
exchangers, small ground loop, etc). I can certainly believe there are 
100,000 ICF buildings up, but I'm still mystified who this person is and 
what he's offering. Many of the home/building photos are renders 
(drawings), not actually photos,  so I don't know that they are built...

There is a brochure describing the Isomax Passive house technology a 
little here:

http://www.isomax-terrasol.eu/uploads/media/Isomax-Br-USA-A_01.pdf

It mentions the ideas previously noted, like the buried coaxial air to 
air heat exchanger (not a new idea btw). I'm quite sure there aren't 
100,000 of these systems installed in the world (or, for that matter, 
probably even 100: probably not even 10 -- all photos on site are of the 
same installation as far as I can tell). Anyway, it would be very 
interesting to see some actual performance data, claims are a dime a 
dozen. There could be some interesting stuff there...

Keith

Donald Eyermann wrote:
> What are you kidding? There's multiple homes photos flashing on the right
> side, there's about sixty flags of the countries where they have been build
> on the left. There's the man's name and photo that comes up on the red intro
> screen. Did you google Dr. Edmond Krecke? The more you dig the more you'll
> find. He has a deal cooking with China for a million homes.  And Stalin,
> hitler and Moussilini were never nominated for the Nobel Prize for Physics.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Winston [mailto:keith at earthsunenergy.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:44 PM
> To: Donald Eyermann
> Cc: 'Dusch, Jim E'; 'Sacie Lambertson'; 'Greenbuilding';
> barbara at encompmedia.com; Lucy at encompmedia.com; anna at encompmedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>
> Hi Donald, who exactly are you talking about? As far as I can see, the
> Isomax site is bogus. I've looked at it before. You claim 100,000 low or
> zero energy homes, but I haven't seen 'em? Where are they? A google search
> on Isomax comes up essentially blank, which is funny for something that's
> been applied 100,000 times!? The Isomax site has almost no specifics. Three
> time nominee for Nobel? How can you know this? Nobel peace prize nominees
> are kept secret (except pre-1955: the list includes Hitler, Stalin, and
> Mussolini, btw). 
>
> Clearly they've built one house using some interesting combination of
> home-built air to air heat exchanger (consisting of several hundreds of feet
> of stainless 6" flex duct threaded into 8"), near-house ground loops, and a
> roof integrated solar thermal system (aka Dawn Solar, which I have little
> faith in). There is no performance data on the website or associated
> download. The download/slide show seems to take credit for a bunch of
> buildings that don't appear to incorporate these systems at all (in fact,
> many are just renders, and likely not yet built at all).
>
> I'd be interested in the name of this world expert, since it doesn't appear
> on the site as far as I see. And any further info suggesting this is
> something other than bogus.
>
> Keith
>
>
> Donald Eyermann wrote:
>   
>> Check out a World Expert. www.isomax-terrasol.de He is a three time 
>> nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize for about 100,000 Low and now Zero 
>> Energy Homes, built all over the world. He is a regular speaker at the 
>> International Conference on Global Warming and has a relationship with 
>> China to build a million energy efficient homes; to try to reduce 
>> their need for burning coal to condition their homes. About half a 
>> billion people are making a mass exodus from farms to the cities 
>> because they want western style conveniences and toys, just like us. 
>> Anyone in the Arizona area can attend a dinner/speech on January 14th at
>>     
> the Hilton Midtown in Phoenix at 6:00pm.
>   
>> Call www.encompmedia.com for reservations.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Dusch, 
>> Jim E
>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:16 PM
>> To: Keith Winston; Sacie Lambertson
>> Cc: Greenbuilding
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>
>> If that first 6-10 feet (or more) of copper is in an unheated space, 
>> what's the best practice for freeze protection?  Up here in Maine the 
>> high has been a sunny beautiful 5 degrees today (which is balmy 
>> compared to what it'll be
>> tonight) -- which is obviously one of those worst case situations that 
>> demands realistic proven technology, built bulletproof.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Keith 
>> Winston
>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:25 PM
>> To: Sacie Lambertson
>> Cc: Greenbuilding
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>
>> Hi Sacie,
>>
>> First, Pex-Al-Pex has much higher burst pressures/temps than Pex, so 
>> is much more suited to solar. It is still necessary to provide some 
>> buffer so it doesn't get heated to stagnation temperatures ever. 6 or 
>> more feet
>>
>> of copper is an option, as is (I suspect) a foot or two of a 
>> higher-temp
>>
>> lower-conducting plastic tubing, which I am exploring on a job. There 
>> is
>>
>> also a big difference with different solar collectors: evacuated tubes 
>> might stagnate to 340F, whereas flat plates are unlikely to surpass 
>> 250F
>>
>> or so. In any case, as soon as water is flowing these temps very very 
>> quickly diminish, typically into the 120-160F range, though that 
>> depends
>>
>> on insolation, collector, flow rate, fluid, etc. The only thing about 
>> mixing tube types is, connections are where leaks most commonly occur, 
>> so you'd like to either or both minimize them, keep them accessible, 
>> and
>>
>> put them where leaks won't ruin your house. As is so often the case, 
>> reality is likely to involve compromise. Good luck.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sacie Lambertson wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> When we built our house we plumbed it for a back-up solar water
>>>     
>>>       
>> heating
>>   
>>     
>>> system.  Unfortunately this was before I learned that PEX could not 
>>> be used.  Now I'm ready to complete the job (our propane bills have 
>>> gone
>>>     
>>>       
>> from
>>   
>>     
>>> $350/yr to $750/yr) but I'm told that AL PEX should NOT be used
>>>     
>>>       
>> either, that
>>   
>>     
>>> it can't take the extreme heat of the glycol coming out of the solar
>>>     
>>>       
>> panel.
>>   
>>     
>>> I would appreciate hearing some opinions and best advice on this.
>>>     
>>>       
>> Copper is
>>   
>>     
>>> the only recommended carrier this knowledgeable source told me 
>>> (though
>>>     
>>>       
>> he
>>   
>>     
>>> had heard of using copper for the first six feet, with an alternative
>>>     
>>>       
>> after
>>   
>>     
>>> that, but didn't think this a good idea either).  I really don't want
>>>     
>>>       
>> to use
>>   
>>     
>>> copper if I can help it.
>>>
>>> A follow up question: what is the best insulator for the
>>>     
>>>       
>> copper/alternative
>>   
>>     
>>> line which will have to be buried for 20 ft before it enters the
>>>     
>>>       
>> house?  Yes
>>   
>>     
>>> I know that copper must be contained if it is going to be buried in
>>>     
>>>       
>> the
>>   
>>     
>>> ground.
>>> Thanks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Greenbuilding email list
>>>      Environmentally-preferable design, construction, building
>>>     
>>>       
>> elements
>>   
>>     
>>> List info:
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> or
>> g
>>   
>>     
>>> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by BuildingGreen, 
>>> Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>>       publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec Hosted 
>>> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org To get on the list:
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> or
>> g
>>   
>>     
>>>   or
>>>     
>>>       
>> mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
>>   
>>     
>>> To get off the list:
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> or
>> g
>>   
>>     
>>>   or
>>>     
>>>       
>> mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
>>   
>>     
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Greenbuilding email list
>>      Environmentally-preferable design, construction, building 
>> elements List
>> info:
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> or
>> g
>> List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc.
>> http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>       publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec Hosted 
>> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org To get on the list:
>>  
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> or
>> g
>>   or 
>> mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
>> To get off the list:
>>  
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> or
>> g
>>   or 
>> mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Greenbuilding email list
>>      Environmentally-preferable design, construction, building 
>> elements List
>> info:
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.
>> org List email: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org Managed by 
>> BuildingGreen, Inc.
>> http://www.buildinggreen.com
>>       publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec Hosted 
>> and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org To get on the list:
>>
>>     
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>   
>>   or 
>> mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
>> To get off the list:
>>
>>     
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org
>   
>>   or 
>> mailto:greenbuilding-request at listserv.repp.org?subject=unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   