[Greenbuilding] catfight! was Al Pex for Solar Heating System and one-piece footers/stem walls
Keith Winston
keith at earthsunenergy.com
Sun Jan 6 13:15:41 CST 2008
Let's take this offline, Donald, it's mostly not so pertinent to the
list. I looked at your Isomax ICF site, it's interesting -- do you leave
the forms in place for your one-piece monolithic footers & stemwalls?
Are they plastic? They don't quite look like polystyrene... For anyone
interested, the best picture I quickly found is here:
http://www.isomax-az.com/photos/Footer%20Panels/SlideA.jpg
Keith
Donald Eyermann wrote:
> The Nobel Peace Prize is given in different categories his three nominations
> are in Physics. Being as you have found your way into the site, whay don't
> you write to him with your CHALLENGES. His e-mail is right there.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Winston [mailto:keith at earthsunenergy.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:51 PM
> To: Donald Eyermann; Greenbuilder list
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>
> Hi Donald,
>
> You had originally said the Nobel Peace Prize, not Physics (scroll below). I
> guess that was a misstatement - oops.
>
> I still don't see his name on an "intro screen", I don't know why that would
> work differently for me than you, but browsers can be funny perhaps. When I
> google him, I mostly get stuff about ICF buildings, and as far as I can tell
> the buildings on the site are mostly ICF buildings.
> I can't tell that there's anything else special about them (except the one I
> mentioned before, which has some curious combination of air heat exchangers,
> small ground loop, etc). I can certainly believe there are 100,000 ICF
> buildings up, but I'm still mystified who this person is and what he's
> offering. Many of the home/building photos are renders (drawings), not
> actually photos, so I don't know that they are built...
>
> There is a brochure describing the Isomax Passive house technology a little
> here:
>
> http://www.isomax-terrasol.eu/uploads/media/Isomax-Br-USA-A_01.pdf
>
> It mentions the ideas previously noted, like the buried coaxial air to air
> heat exchanger (not a new idea btw). I'm quite sure there aren't 100,000 of
> these systems installed in the world (or, for that matter, probably even
> 100: probably not even 10 -- all photos on site are of the same installation
> as far as I can tell). Anyway, it would be very interesting to see some
> actual performance data, claims are a dime a dozen. There could be some
> interesting stuff there...
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> Donald Eyermann wrote:
>
>> What are you kidding? There's multiple homes photos flashing on the right
>> side, there's about sixty flags of the countries where they have been
>>
> build
>
>> on the left. There's the man's name and photo that comes up on the red
>>
> intro
>
>> screen. Did you google Dr. Edmond Krecke? The more you dig the more you'll
>> find. He has a deal cooking with China for a million homes. And Stalin,
>> hitler and Moussilini were never nominated for the Nobel Prize for
>>
> Physics.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Keith Winston [mailto:keith at earthsunenergy.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:44 PM
>> To: Donald Eyermann
>> Cc: 'Dusch, Jim E'; 'Sacie Lambertson'; 'Greenbuilding';
>> barbara at encompmedia.com; Lucy at encompmedia.com; anna at encompmedia.com
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>
>> Hi Donald, who exactly are you talking about? As far as I can see, the
>> Isomax site is bogus. I've looked at it before. You claim 100,000 low or
>> zero energy homes, but I haven't seen 'em? Where are they? A google search
>> on Isomax comes up essentially blank, which is funny for something that's
>> been applied 100,000 times!? The Isomax site has almost no specifics.
>>
> Three
>
>> time nominee for Nobel? How can you know this? Nobel peace prize nominees
>> are kept secret (except pre-1955: the list includes Hitler, Stalin, and
>> Mussolini, btw).
>>
>> Clearly they've built one house using some interesting combination of
>> home-built air to air heat exchanger (consisting of several hundreds of
>>
> feet
>
>> of stainless 6" flex duct threaded into 8"), near-house ground loops, and
>>
> a
>
>> roof integrated solar thermal system (aka Dawn Solar, which I have little
>> faith in). There is no performance data on the website or associated
>> download. The download/slide show seems to take credit for a bunch of
>> buildings that don't appear to incorporate these systems at all (in fact,
>> many are just renders, and likely not yet built at all).
>>
>> I'd be interested in the name of this world expert, since it doesn't
>>
> appear
>
>> on the site as far as I see. And any further info suggesting this is
>> something other than bogus.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Donald Eyermann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Check out a World Expert. www.isomax-terrasol.de He is a three time
>>> nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize for about 100,000 Low and now Zero
>>> Energy Homes, built all over the world. He is a regular speaker at the
>>> International Conference on Global Warming and has a relationship with
>>> China to build a million energy efficient homes; to try to reduce
>>> their need for burning coal to condition their homes. About half a
>>> billion people are making a mass exodus from farms to the cities
>>> because they want western style conveniences and toys, just like us.
>>> Anyone in the Arizona area can attend a dinner/speech on January 14th at
>>>
>>>
>> the Hilton Midtown in Phoenix at 6:00pm.
>>
>>
>>> Call www.encompmedia.com for reservations.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Dusch,
>>> Jim E
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:16 PM
>>> To: Keith Winston; Sacie Lambertson
>>> Cc: Greenbuilding
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>>
>>> If that first 6-10 feet (or more) of copper is in an unheated space,
>>> what's the best practice for freeze protection? Up here in Maine the
>>> high has been a sunny beautiful 5 degrees today (which is balmy
>>> compared to what it'll be
>>> tonight) -- which is obviously one of those worst case situations that
>>> demands realistic proven technology, built bulletproof.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Keith
>>> Winston
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:25 PM
>>> To: Sacie Lambertson
>>> Cc: Greenbuilding
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>>
>>> Hi Sacie,
>>>
>>> First, Pex-Al-Pex has much higher burst pressures/temps than Pex, so
>>> is much more suited to solar. It is still necessary to provide some
>>> buffer so it doesn't get heated to stagnation temperatures ever. 6 or
>>> more feet
>>>
>>> of copper is an option, as is (I suspect) a foot or two of a
>>> higher-temp
>>>
>>> lower-conducting plastic tubing, which I am exploring on a job. There
>>> is
>>>
>>> also a big difference with different solar collectors: evacuated tubes
>>> might stagnate to 340F, whereas flat plates are unlikely to surpass
>>> 250F
>>>
>>> or so. In any case, as soon as water is flowing these temps very very
>>> quickly diminish, typically into the 120-160F range, though that
>>> depends
>>>
>>> on insolation, collector, flow rate, fluid, etc. The only thing about
>>> mixing tube types is, connections are where leaks most commonly occur,
>>> so you'd like to either or both minimize them, keep them accessible,
>>> and
>>>
>>> put them where leaks won't ruin your house. As is so often the case,
>>> reality is likely to involve compromise. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sacie Lambertson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> When we built our house we plumbed it for a back-up solar water
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> heating
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> system. Unfortunately this was before I learned that PEX could not
>>>> be used. Now I'm ready to complete the job (our propane bills have
>>>> gone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> from
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> $350/yr to $750/yr) but I'm told that AL PEX should NOT be used
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> either, that
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> it can't take the extreme heat of the glycol coming out of the solar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> panel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I would appreciate hearing some opinions and best advice on this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Copper is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> the only recommended carrier this knowledgeable source told me
>>>> (though
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> he
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> had heard of using copper for the first six feet, with an alternative
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> after
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> that, but didn't think this a good idea either). I really don't want
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to use
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> copper if I can help it.
>>>>
>>>> A follow up question: what is the best insulator for the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> copper/alternative
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> line which will have to be buried for 20 ft before it enters the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> house? Yes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I know that copper must be contained if it is going to be buried in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ground.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> _______________________________________________
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