[Greenbuilding] catfight! was Al Pex for Solar Heating System and one-piece footers/stem walls
Donald Eyermann
zeroenergy at cox.net
Sun Jan 6 15:26:27 CST 2008
Our "Foundation Panels" are stay in place forms. We use a cementious board
product in this application.
That can be Hardie plank, or Virock (used for the security wall surrounding
the power grid in Burbank, Calif.)or other brands of similar products.
Isomax is a very flexible "system", we can make panels with plastic, wood,
steel, foam, cementious board, etc. We can fabricate panels singularly or in
combination, such as cementious board on one side and EPS foam on the other.
Imagine a foam wall panel with a 2 x 10 or 2 x 12 board already built in for
a second floor header board to attach the joists. Labor saved is money
earned. Or we can even make the joist hanger formed to be retained right
into the concrete, instead of being nailed on. Nailed on hangers tear off
convential homes in high winds, like Katrina. We're into much better
construction concepts and applications for the future.
How about a Mega Panel.....a home made from just twenty pieces or less?
http://www.isomax-az.com/photos/US-Lg-Panel-1.html That is being done right
now in other parts of the world. We have a possibility for such a home in
West Phoenix. Right now you'll find Project Photos on our web site of a 3150
sq.ft. home, the entire shell of which was erected in two weeks from only
162 pieces. Compare that with the several thousand pieces of wood, metal
securing strips, sheathing, vapor barier film , nails, tackers, batting, ad
infititum for the skeleton of a conventional home. Think about all the
processing, waste, energy, time and labor that went into all those
components to make the house and the overall impact on the planet. ICF's are
superior "system"....and we can build a true net Zero Energy Life Style by
simply adding solar pv panels and an electric car to plug-in and run on the
sun. Exciting new dimensions if you ask me.
-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Keith Winston
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:16 PM
To: Donald Eyermann
Cc: 'Greenbuilder list'
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] catfight! was Al Pex for Solar Heating System
and one-piece footers/stem walls
Let's take this offline, Donald, it's mostly not so pertinent to the list. I
looked at your Isomax ICF site, it's interesting -- do you leave the forms
in place for your one-piece monolithic footers & stemwalls?
Are they plastic? They don't quite look like polystyrene... For anyone
interested, the best picture I quickly found is here:
http://www.isomax-az.com/photos/Footer%20Panels/SlideA.jpg
Keith
Donald Eyermann wrote:
> The Nobel Peace Prize is given in different categories his three
> nominations are in Physics. Being as you have found your way into the
> site, whay don't you write to him with your CHALLENGES. His e-mail is
right there.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Winston [mailto:keith at earthsunenergy.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 2:51 PM
> To: Donald Eyermann; Greenbuilder list
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>
> Hi Donald,
>
> You had originally said the Nobel Peace Prize, not Physics (scroll
> below). I guess that was a misstatement - oops.
>
> I still don't see his name on an "intro screen", I don't know why that
> would work differently for me than you, but browsers can be funny
> perhaps. When I google him, I mostly get stuff about ICF buildings,
> and as far as I can tell the buildings on the site are mostly ICF
buildings.
> I can't tell that there's anything else special about them (except the
> one I mentioned before, which has some curious combination of air heat
> exchangers, small ground loop, etc). I can certainly believe there are
> 100,000 ICF buildings up, but I'm still mystified who this person is
> and what he's offering. Many of the home/building photos are renders
> (drawings), not actually photos, so I don't know that they are built...
>
> There is a brochure describing the Isomax Passive house technology a
> little
> here:
>
> http://www.isomax-terrasol.eu/uploads/media/Isomax-Br-USA-A_01.pdf
>
> It mentions the ideas previously noted, like the buried coaxial air to
> air heat exchanger (not a new idea btw). I'm quite sure there aren't
> 100,000 of these systems installed in the world (or, for that matter,
> probably even
> 100: probably not even 10 -- all photos on site are of the same
> installation as far as I can tell). Anyway, it would be very
> interesting to see some actual performance data, claims are a dime a
> dozen. There could be some interesting stuff there...
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> Donald Eyermann wrote:
>
>> What are you kidding? There's multiple homes photos flashing on the
>> right side, there's about sixty flags of the countries where they
>> have been
>>
> build
>
>> on the left. There's the man's name and photo that comes up on the
>> red
>>
> intro
>
>> screen. Did you google Dr. Edmond Krecke? The more you dig the more
>> you'll find. He has a deal cooking with China for a million homes.
>> And Stalin, hitler and Moussilini were never nominated for the Nobel
>> Prize for
>>
> Physics.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Keith Winston [mailto:keith at earthsunenergy.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:44 PM
>> To: Donald Eyermann
>> Cc: 'Dusch, Jim E'; 'Sacie Lambertson'; 'Greenbuilding';
>> barbara at encompmedia.com; Lucy at encompmedia.com; anna at encompmedia.com
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>
>> Hi Donald, who exactly are you talking about? As far as I can see,
>> the Isomax site is bogus. I've looked at it before. You claim 100,000
>> low or zero energy homes, but I haven't seen 'em? Where are they? A
>> google search on Isomax comes up essentially blank, which is funny
>> for something that's been applied 100,000 times!? The Isomax site has
almost no specifics.
>>
> Three
>
>> time nominee for Nobel? How can you know this? Nobel peace prize
>> nominees are kept secret (except pre-1955: the list includes Hitler,
>> Stalin, and Mussolini, btw).
>>
>> Clearly they've built one house using some interesting combination of
>> home-built air to air heat exchanger (consisting of several hundreds
>> of
>>
> feet
>
>> of stainless 6" flex duct threaded into 8"), near-house ground loops,
>> and
>>
> a
>
>> roof integrated solar thermal system (aka Dawn Solar, which I have
>> little faith in). There is no performance data on the website or
>> associated download. The download/slide show seems to take credit for
>> a bunch of buildings that don't appear to incorporate these systems
>> at all (in fact, many are just renders, and likely not yet built at all).
>>
>> I'd be interested in the name of this world expert, since it doesn't
>>
> appear
>
>> on the site as far as I see. And any further info suggesting this is
>> something other than bogus.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> Donald Eyermann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Check out a World Expert. www.isomax-terrasol.de He is a three time
>>> nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize for about 100,000 Low and now Zero
>>> Energy Homes, built all over the world. He is a regular speaker at
>>> the International Conference on Global Warming and has a
>>> relationship with China to build a million energy efficient homes;
>>> to try to reduce their need for burning coal to condition their
>>> homes. About half a billion people are making a mass exodus from
>>> farms to the cities because they want western style conveniences and
toys, just like us.
>>> Anyone in the Arizona area can attend a dinner/speech on January
>>> 14th at
>>>
>>>
>> the Hilton Midtown in Phoenix at 6:00pm.
>>
>>
>>> Call www.encompmedia.com for reservations.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Dusch,
>>> Jim E
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:16 PM
>>> To: Keith Winston; Sacie Lambertson
>>> Cc: Greenbuilding
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>>
>>> If that first 6-10 feet (or more) of copper is in an unheated space,
>>> what's the best practice for freeze protection? Up here in Maine
>>> the high has been a sunny beautiful 5 degrees today (which is balmy
>>> compared to what it'll be
>>> tonight) -- which is obviously one of those worst case situations
>>> that demands realistic proven technology, built bulletproof.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Keith
>>> Winston
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:25 PM
>>> To: Sacie Lambertson
>>> Cc: Greenbuilding
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Al Pex for Solar Heating System
>>>
>>> Hi Sacie,
>>>
>>> First, Pex-Al-Pex has much higher burst pressures/temps than Pex, so
>>> is much more suited to solar. It is still necessary to provide some
>>> buffer so it doesn't get heated to stagnation temperatures ever. 6
>>> or more feet
>>>
>>> of copper is an option, as is (I suspect) a foot or two of a
>>> higher-temp
>>>
>>> lower-conducting plastic tubing, which I am exploring on a job.
>>> There is
>>>
>>> also a big difference with different solar collectors: evacuated
>>> tubes might stagnate to 340F, whereas flat plates are unlikely to
>>> surpass 250F
>>>
>>> or so. In any case, as soon as water is flowing these temps very
>>> very quickly diminish, typically into the 120-160F range, though
>>> that depends
>>>
>>> on insolation, collector, flow rate, fluid, etc. The only thing
>>> about mixing tube types is, connections are where leaks most
>>> commonly occur, so you'd like to either or both minimize them, keep
>>> them accessible, and
>>>
>>> put them where leaks won't ruin your house. As is so often the case,
>>> reality is likely to involve compromise. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sacie Lambertson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> When we built our house we plumbed it for a back-up solar water
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> heating
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> system. Unfortunately this was before I learned that PEX could not
>>>> be used. Now I'm ready to complete the job (our propane bills have
>>>> gone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> from
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> $350/yr to $750/yr) but I'm told that AL PEX should NOT be used
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> either, that
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> it can't take the extreme heat of the glycol coming out of the
>>>> solar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> panel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I would appreciate hearing some opinions and best advice on this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Copper is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> the only recommended carrier this knowledgeable source told me
>>>> (though
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> he
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> had heard of using copper for the first six feet, with an
>>>> alternative
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> after
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> that, but didn't think this a good idea either). I really don't
>>>> want
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> to use
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> copper if I can help it.
>>>>
>>>> A follow up question: what is the best insulator for the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> copper/alternative
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> line which will have to be buried for 20 ft before it enters the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> house? Yes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I know that copper must be contained if it is going to be buried in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ground.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Greenbuilding email list
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