[Greenbuilding] Fwd: Tata, funny name, un funny topic.

Mon Jan 21 07:27:26 CST 2008

I'm sticking with NEVER Scott. I think we would all be surprised at the more 
common sense and effective solutions to our dire energy predicament our 
children and grandchildren will come up with besides reliance on the pipe 
dream of a worldwide hydrogen economy/energy system.

Wishing you and I could stick around long enough to see just how things 
shake out.

Ron

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Wangler" <Scott at Geis-Companies.com>
To: "RONALD CASCIO" <roncascio at verizon.net>; 
<greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Greenbuilding] Fwd: Tata, funny name, un funny topic.

Never is a LONG time. I am not sure how you can be so confident. I would
love to hear some of the things people 100 years ago thought would
"never" happen.

-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of RONALD
CASCIO
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 4:10 AM
To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Fwd: Tata, funny name, un funny topic.

Fuel celled powered vehicles will never get beyond a minor, extremely
expensive, niche. The infrastructure will never be built to serve the
masses, the precious metals needed for the reactors aren't abundant
enough, they will never be affordable, the "fuel" is too energy
intensive to produce... I can go on and on.

The systems used to produce and support a hydrogen economy are too big
to survive where we are heading. An economy and energy system more
organically and locally based, more in tune with the natural systems
that the real world is associated with, is where we will find survival
with the fewest bumps in the road.

Fuel cell cars are nothing more than a science experiment, and the
portrayal that they will allow us to continue the fantasy lifestyle of a
drive-anywhere-anytime-you-want-to society is a joke, if not downright
sinful. IMHO.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Korves" <bkorves at winfirst.com>
To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Fwd: Tata, funny name, un funny topic.

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Benjamin Pratt" <prattb at uwstout.edu>
> To: <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Fwd: Tata, funny name, un funny topic.
>
>
>> what do you all think of Honda's new fuel cell vehicle?
>>
>> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/?from=fcx.honda.com
>>
>> And what do you think of their home energy concept which would power
>> the home and the car's fuel cell using solar?
>>
>> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/owning/home-energy-station/
>>
>> -Ben Pratt
>>
>
> Well, nice looking car, and Honda is known for making quality
vehicles.
>
> The car is not yet available, and will only be sold to a test group in
So.
> California.  The reason for that is that there is no infrastructure to
> handle the fuel.
>
> Honda talks about home based refueling to bypass that problem.
> Unfortunately, I expect that is an extremely inefficient way of
providing
> fuel to an automobile.  It is also tied to natural gas, a diminishing
> resource and stopgap at best for widespread transportation use.
>
> I work in Sacramento, California, about a mile from the California
Fuel
> Cell
> Partnership and in the same field:
>
> http://www.cafcp.org/
>
> They have been trying for years to make fuel cells that would operate
> using
> gasoline, propane, natural gas, or some other common hydrocarbon.
They
> have
> not had great success, as shown by the new Honda concept.  It would be

> more
> straight forward to oxidize the hydrocarbon fuel in the vehicle fuel
cell
> than go through multiple steps to make hydrogen, compress it, and then
put
> it in high pressure bottles in the car, then oxidize the hydrogen in a

> fuel
> cell, making electricity, and then running a motor and drive train
with
> the
> electricity for motive power.
>
> It _appears_ from the drawing that their 'Home Energy Station' is a
> combination fuel cell, hydrogen breeder, and cogeneration plant.  I
would
> like to see the REAL cost of that.  And, of course, using natural gas
> makes
> it a dead player long term.
>
> Fuel cells are also intrinsically very expen$ive, using precious
metals as
> catalysts.
>
> I am afraid that the Claity will probably end up like the EV+ electric
> car -- gee whiz, but impractical and expensive, even if subsidized
> heavily.
>
> It would be great if an auto maker would come up with something that
truly
> makes sense, but if you ask me we need to get away from the multi-ton
> monsters we have come to think we "need" and get down to something
closer
> to
> a powered four wheel bicycle with a roof.
>
> My $.02, and worth every penny.
> -Bob Korves
>
>
>
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