[Greenbuilding] Chemical Sensitivities

Keith Winston keith at earthsunenergy.com
Fri Mar 21 12:49:02 CDT 2008 

Hi Jason,

When you say "clean" MSDS, you mean it seems to indicate a safe product? 
I'm increasingly disappointed in MSDS's as a research strategy on 
products: many spray foam polyurethanes, for example, literally say 
"Part A (proprietary chemicals)" and "Part B (proprietary chemicals)". 
And I've heard Bill Updike talk about how "zero VOC" compounds are often 
"zero VOC" by EPA standards, which were set for smog not indoor air 
quality, and therefor explicitly exclude a long list (something like 50) 
common compounds (like formaldehyde, for example). So one can't trust 
the "no or low VOC" label either, without additional information...

Any further thoughts to understand what it is we're exactly exposing 
ourselves to?

Keith


Jason Holstine wrote:
> When working with MCS customers (almost like our patients), we make it a
> rule to tell them that our products have proven to work well with MCS people
> and are popular, but we can never guarantee they won't have a reaction--b/c
> every person is different. With that guideline in mind, we've found that
> AFM's caulk is acceptable in performance (doing what caulk is supposed to
> do) but Titebond's is superior. Stephen will be able to attest to that when
> his place thaws out--Titebond's Weathermaster caulk will extrude to zero
> degrees F and serves as a fantastic all-purpose caulk. And in fact
> Titebond's MSDS sheets are even cleaner. It's all a matter of age of the
> chemistry.
>
> We have tested the OSI lines and have found their MSDS sheets aren't as
> clean as the Titebond. There are only a couple products the OSI line has
> that the Titebond doesn't--the big one being the minimum expanding foam.
> Compared to other foams it's MSDS is pretty clean, especially for an
> aerosol, but you'll want to test for acceptance first.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jason Holstine
> Amicus Green Building Center
> www.amicusgreen.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Stephen
> Collette
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 11:22 AM
> To: Greenbuilder list
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] Chemical Sensitivities
>
>
> Great point Irina, and unfortunately true. I too have seen people with MCS
> reacting to "safe products", which is very frustrating for everyone. As I
> mentioned, echoing Irina, it's client specific.
>
> I bought some Titebond green series caulking and drywall glue from Jason (on
> this list) of Amicus. I like the product for durability.  
> (currently buried in snow outside my back door) and I didn't really notice a
> smell. My good friend and carpenter also likes it and the drywall glue both.
> He previously had used their regular wood glue, as it's a good product.
>
> I also noticed that OSI now has a "green series spray foam" in a can.  
> I haven't used it or seen it, except online
> http://www.greenseries.com/product
> Jason had made comments about the OSI product and I can't remember whether
> they were testing it or didn't like it. Sorry Jason will have to chime in if
> he gets a chance. And it wasn't about foam, but about caulks he and I were
> discussing.
>
> For Joshua, and others, I typically try to get my hands on a couple of
> choices, and let the client pick what works best for them.
>
> Stephen
>
> Stephen Collette BBEC, LEED AP
> Principal
> Your Healthy House - Indoor Environmental Testing & Building Consulting
> www.yourhealthyhouse.ca stephen at yourhealthyhouse.ca
> 705.652.5159
>
>
>
> On 20-Mar-08, at 10:57 AM, Irina Golfman Rosenblum wrote:
>
>   
>> Stephen,
>>
>> I have not had very good results with the AFM caulk and wonder if you 
>> can recommend good caulking products for CMS people both for indoor 
>> and outdoor use. I am also trying to find a good alternative for 
>> phenoseal for sealing the gaps between the wall and baseboard, etc. 
>> Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Joshua, just an FYI: some chemically sensitive people may react to 
>> products that are supposed to be safe for them. For example, my son 
>> and I are sensitive to some AFM products that are formulated for 
>> people with sensitivities. We do our best to only use safe products, 
>> but we need to be prepared to spend time airing out and baking out the 
>> space, sometimes for weeks.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Irina
>> On Mar 19, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Stephen Collette wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hello Joshua,
>>>
>>> I do not, unfortunately recommend the book by CMHC on Environmental 
>>> Hypersensitivity. They took the middle of the road approach and caved 
>>> to manufacturers, and as such, the book is not as helpful as it could 
>>> be. They are working on a revision right now (I applied, didn't get 
>>> it, but had this discussion with tremendously talented Virginia 
>>> Salares, who is running the IAQ side there) I believe the revision 
>>> will be more helpful than the current one.
>>>
>>> It is more important to understand exactly what triggers your client 
>>> has, and then try to remove those materials from the build. Difficult 
>>> at best, complex at worst. There are of course some basics, like zero 
>>> VOC everything, especially caulkings and seals. Finishes are becoming 
>>> easier to source.
>>>
>>> Paula Baker-Laporte's Prescription for a Healthy House has just come 
>>> out with a 3rd edition. She is a brilliant architect who is also 
>>> chemically sensitive. It's a great place to start.
>>>
>>> If I can be of more help, please email me off list.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> Stephen Collette BBEC, LEED AP
>>> Principal
>>> Your Healthy House - Indoor Environmental Testing & Building 
>>> Consulting www.yourhealthyhouse.ca stephen at yourhealthyhouse.ca
>>> 705.652.5159
>>>
>>>
>>>
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