[Greenbuilding] Hot water return

Wed Feb 4 03:46:44 CST 2009

I'd think second about the motion detector, could send needless msgs and 
waste quite allot of water and energy.

We've been living with a Metlund button version for over two years now and 
it's a snap, even the 6 year old has it wired... pushing the button is just 
second nature before needing hot water. This hot water system is one of the 
best/greenest features in our house IMHO.

And I'll second Jason's remark to Mark about keeping the info coming. Most 
of the common (and not so common) issues that arise here have a history of 
attention at EBN, and if Mark is willing to take the time to share with 
those who have yet to recognize the wealth of information there and to sign 
up for the service... then let it rip. Eventually they'll see the light and 
subscribe.

Ron

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Holstine" <jason at amicusgreen.com>
To: "'Mark Piepkorn'" <mark at buildinggreen.com>; 
<Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Hot water return

> Indeed, the Metlund D'Mands are quite effective, esp given their 
> simplicity.
> You can get a motion detector to turn it on when you walk in the room if 
> you
> care to automate it a little.
>
> Mark - don't even think of ducking back to lurk mode. I've often wanted to
> post bg stories but haven't in respect to the subscription service and
> copyrights. It's beyond valuable information.
>
> Jason Holstine
> Amicus Green Building Center
> www.amicusgreen.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Mark 
> Piepkorn
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:02 PM
> To: Greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Hot water return
>
>
>         Demand-Controlled Hot Water Circulators:
> http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2008/2/3/Water-Doing-More-With
> -Less/#Demand-ControlledHotWaterCirculators
>
> At 08:49 PM 2/3/2009, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
>>I found this very good article on return lines and circulators.
>>http://www.waterrating.gov.au/publications/pubs/hot-water-circulators.p
>>df
>>
>>Although it does say that on demand re circulators are good, they only
>>work really well when they are manual. Meaning they need to be
>>activated by a switch (in the bathroom for example). Sounds way too
>>complicated.
>
>         That's the reason I can't stay up after it gets dark - them
> light-switcher-onners are just too much for me to figure
> out.   :)   Seriously, pushing a button to activate a
> temperature-sensing recirculator is less complicated than sticking your
> finger in the stream every few seconds to see if the water's hot yet.
>
>>I've basically concluded that in terms of energy conservation it isn't
>>worth having a hot water return. The water saved does not warrant the
>>energy wasted (in hot water, up front costs and electricity). For
>>comfort of course it is good but not for energy savings.
>
>         We all rest our pointy heads on solipsistic pillows of our own
> experience. I grew up in Minnesota and live in Vermont, so I always 
> default
> to thinking about nice juicy heating climates full of lakes and streams 
> and
> with frequent rain and snow (despite a couple odd years in New Mexico). 
> From
> a 1995 - yes, FOURTEEN YEARS ago - review in EBN of Metlund's on-demand
> recirc system: "The potential water savings from recirculating systems is 
> so
> dramatic that many municipalities, particularly in drought-stricken
> California, now require such systems in new homes. Depending on the
> assumptions chosen, a full-time recirculating system can use about 900 kWh
> (more than a full-size refrigerator) and waste 9 million Btu (9,500
> megajoules) annually in heat loss from pipes."
> http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/1995/3/1/Hot-Water-on-Demand-A
> nd-No-Energy-Penalty/
>
>         For more on the state of water and our relationships with it, see
> these three recent EBN features:
>
> Water: Doing More With Less (February 1, 2008)
> http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2008/2/3/Water-Doing-More-With
> -Less/
>
> Alternative Water Sources: Supply-Side Solutions for Green Buildings (May 
> 1,
> 2008)
> http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2008/4/29/Alternative-Water-So
> urces-Supply-Side-Solutions-for-Green-Buildings/
>
> Water Policies: Encouraging Conservation (September 1, 2008)
> http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2008/8/28/Water-Policies-Encou
> raging-Conservation/
>
>
>         Am I aggravating people by posting all this BuildingGreen stuff
> lately, or is it helpful? I do work there, after all, and there are people
> on this list wise enough to keep abreast of the information available 
> there
> on their own. On the other hand, BuildingGreen does the day-to-day
> maintenance of this list as a public service (REPP.org is the actual
> listowner), so some license might have been earned. Whatever. I'll 
> probably
> duck back into lurk mode anyway - as enjoyable as it can sometimes be,
> active forum participation takes more time than I usually have.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
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