[Stoves] Pedal powered fan

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear David

Congratulations for what appears to me to be an excellent stove system!!

The stove system you provide is certainly much more than a $5 stove, in more 
ways than one:

1: It is more like two stoves in parallel, sharing a body and chimney
2: The stack addresses the concern for Indoor Air Pollution (IAP)
3: You include a training program
4: You include complete hardware (stove, elbow, stack, and a stack support 
that makes advantageous use of the existing building structure for support.
5: There is a support assistance of about $55 per stove
6: There is a distribution system.

The Buyer is getting a very good deal when he purchases one of these 
systems.

Given that the stove seems to work so well when underway, the need for 
bellows or a fan is optimal. Given that the extra "air blast" would only be 
required for a short period to get the fire well started, a bellows system 
would seem the best way to provide such supplemental draft, if desired.

The "$5 stove" concept is turning out to be not very helpful. To meet the 
User Preferences, and to provide the necessary support to enable the system 
to be conveyed to the End User, The End User pays about $32 for a stove that 
cost about $87, and when the support services are added in, the total cost 
is perhaps about $100. At the same time, other people in the area can only 
pay about $5 for a stove. What features of the above stove can be removed to 
make a $5 stove that would be acceptable to the poorer people?

You suggest the possibility of two or three "target levels" for stove cost. 
If we call the above stove a #4 stove and use it as a reference stove with a 
$100 total cost, what features could you take away from this "reference 
stove" to make a family of stoves, #1,#2,#3? Obviously, a person paying $5 
could not expect to get the same features as would his neighbour who just 
paid $32 for a #4 type stove.

You mention the importance of energy conservation. Obviously, this is very 
important, in that the more conserving of energy, the less the energy the 
stove has to provide. One opportunity would be a modified pot and cover 
system, that picked up more heat, and, with a cover, lost less.

You mention the importance of cultural considerations, and the fact that 
they can be more important than economic considerations. This is a real 
"wild card", and unless they can be described meaningfully, it would be very 
difficult for a Stove Designer to develop a design which addressed them.

Best wishes,

Kevin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CEDESOL Foundation lists" <lists.cedesol at gmail.com>
>>>
...del..
>> The number of $5 as a "target cost" for stoves has been thrown about.
>> In the specific case of Bolivia, what would you suggest as being a
>> target price for stoves:
>> a: Natural Draft
>> b: with a fan
> The 2 burner rocket with chimney (which you can see working in an
> outdoor demonstration at
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/en/cedcookingvideoaug28 - the sound is in
> Spanish but the reactions are unmistakable) retails for around 700 Bs
> (around 87$US).  With the subsidy program we are working through, they
> cost the user 250 Bs. (around 32$US).  The user, provides their own
> base, assembles and installs the units themselves after participating in
> hands-on workshop.  The unit comes with 3 meters of 6" diameter chimney,
> one elbow and one chimney cap, plus a rod with a circle at the end to
> fasten the chimney to a beam or something on the roof.
>
> We are using natural draft, although a fan or bellows to build up heat
> while starting the fire could be an interesting accessory.
>
> We just won a competitive bid to provide 1240 units to the international
> NGO, Project Concern International.  That group is installing them in
> rural schools.  The school lunch program is run by the parent's
> associations in the villages so they will be operating the stoves.  The
> school year has terminated so we can't be sure of a total reaction yet
> but every where they have been installed so far, the sindicatos  or
> village organizations are asking for the stoves for every member of the
> village.  We do not have nor de we want a micro credit program.  Most of
> these rural farmers are able to afford the stoves.  And are choosing to
> acquire them at about 8 times the stove list reference price of  5$.
>
> For years we have been promoting a 1 burner rocket stove using the 6
> brick combustion chamber, but could not raise that much interest.  That
> stove was a lot cheaper too.
>
> Addressing your question on target costs, perhaps it would be useful to
> have 2 or 3 levels of target costs.  In Bolivia, one of the poorest
> countries in the western hemisphere, there are people that do not use
> money as a medium of exchange, and A 5$ STOVE WOULD BE GOOD FOR THEM,
> but the larger majority, even though they might only live on 2 to 4 $ a
> day rationalize that 35$ is not too much to pay for a good stove that
> provides some heat, takes the smoke out and uses 60 to 70 % less fuel.
>>
>>> It is curious to me that about that same number have access to bottled
>>> gas, but most prefer to cook with wood.
>>
>> Is it not simply a question of cost?
> No!  More than cost is the availability of gas year round, and cultural
> attitudes, where wood cooking is preferred, even where it has been shown
> that the cost of wood is higher than the gas.
>
> Kevin, cultural factors are more important than economical.
>>>
>>> How about if the recent "brainstormers" take a moment to analyze the
>>> practicability of some of these ideas.
>>
>> Most "new" ideas have rough edges. If they have true merit, then they
>> will get polished, and become widely accepted.
>>
>> I am a strong believer that the
>>> first line of defense should be energy conservation ;-).
>>
>> Where do you see opportunities for conservation that are presently not
>> being implemented?
> in some of the "new" ideas being discussed on the list and the energy
> generated to develop them! ;-)
>>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
> again, thanks for asking Kevin - all the best and Merry Christmas to you
> and your family
> David
>
> -- 
> "We make a living by what we get... we make a life by what we give." - 
> unknown author
>
> David Whitfield V.
> Executive Director
> CEDESOL Foundation
>
> Alternative Education, Renewable Energy, Social Equality
>
> http://www.cedesol.org
>
> SKYPE - solar1bol
>
>