[Stoves] SSNB4 T-LUD reported by Kevin

[Tom Miles]

The BSNB4 flame photo with an excerpt of Kevin's message can be seen at:
http://bioenergylists.org/en/bsnb4 

We still strip attachments to messages to prevent viruses and spam so if you
want to post a photo then either login to www.bioenergylists.org and create
a story or send it to me (tmiles at trmiles.com_) and we'll put it online. 

Thanks for your cooperation.

Tom Miles


-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of psanders at ilstu.edu
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 10:31 AM
To: Kevin Chisholm
Cc: 'Stoves-List'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] SSNB4 T-LUD reported by Kevin

Kevin,

Sorry about the typo for the BSNB4.  What does it stand for and what type of
event was it?

A larger T-LUD has been made by Alex English (about 2000, I think).  
But I have
not heard of any shooting flames 8 feet high.

Many things relating to stoves have been done a few times for the show and
the
"kick" of seeing what happens.  The subsequent test is to find any practical
purpose for the action to justify making it into more mainstream 
application. That is a more important question than making a T-LUD with 
forced air in a 200
liter (55 gal) drum, but I am sure that the oil-drum experience will be 
done by
someone.

You reported that the event lasted about 15 minutes, which is rather short
for
people to "gather 'round the fire for warmth and fellowship," but about
right
for a "flaming spectacular."

I assume you and other readers have seen the LPG-powered outdoor space
heaters
that have a domed (mushroom) top about 7 feet above the ground that reflects
heat back to the people near it.  If we could get a T-LUD outdoor space
heater
with exchangeable fuel canisters so that the heating could be continued for
long periods, that might be a nice product.

I hope you will encourage you T-LUD maker friend to contact us.  I am 
sure he or
she has more stories to tell.  Also, I am curious about how he/she got
started
with T-LUDs.  (In my former life as a geography professor, one topic of
interest was the spread of innovations.  Now I have that interest concerning
the spread of gasifiers and other stove technologies.)

Paul

Quoting Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>:

> Dear Paul
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> Cc: "Dean Still" <dstill at epud.net>; "'Stoves-List'" 
> <stoves at listserv.repp.org>; "'ethos'" <ethos at vrac.iastate.edu>; 
> "'Kirk R. Smith'" <krksmith at berkeley.edu>; "'Jeremy Roth'" 
> <Jeremy at aprovecho.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:07 AM
> Subject: SSNB4 T-LUD reported by Kevin
>
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Nice report on that "bondfire in a can".
>
> Thanks!! However, it was a bit more than a "bonfire in a can".. more 
> properly, it was a "Top Lit Updraft Gasifier, with natural secondary 
> air, operated as a Radiant Heating Stove."
>
> BTW, the event was the "BSNB4"
>
>> Impressive 8 foot flame will toast a very big marshmallow!!!
>
> Yes indeed!! However, it did accomplish its intended purpose of 
> bringing comfort to about 30 people, warming their Souls, as well as 
> their bodies, when the natural bonfire was inadequate. People seemed 
> to prefer the T-LUD over the open fire by a ratio of about 5 to 1
>
>> We need experiences like this to test the limits and generate interest.
>>
> Yes indeed!! Perhaps someone would build one out of a 45 gallon drum. 
> That would be impressive also, and moreso.
>
>> I hope you can encourage that stove maker to be in contact either with
the
>> Stoves Listserve or with individuals (including me) who are interested in
>> lessons learned and future steps.  This will become an entry into 
>> the history
>> of T-LUD gasifiers.
>
> Is this the first 14" T-LUD that develops an 8' flame?
>>
>> Were some of the spectators surprised at the size of the flame?
>
> Surprised would be an understatement. "Awestruck", "boggled" and 
> "amazed" would better capture their feelings.
>
> You took the
>> picture from a healthy distance, but those seated within 8 feet of an 8
foot
>> vertical flame are trusting that the device will not tip over in their
>> direction.
>
> I had to take it from a distance to include the T-LUD and the bonfire 
> in the field of view. Safety was not an issue, in that the T-LUD was 
> mounted on level and solid ground. Additionally, the blast tube was 
> connected with a slip fit coupling that would have slipped off the 
> gasifier air inlet, if the gasifier tipped over. Lack of the forced 
> updraft air would have resulted in the flame diminishing very 
> quickly, and with little to no throw.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>>
>> With true interest,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Quoting Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>:
>>
>>> Dear Paul
>>>
>>> Judging by the humor implied in the "Kirk Smith Cat Piss Award" 
>>> title, I would expect that the rules could be a bit on the loosey 
>>> goosey side. My general impression would be that the winning stove 
>>> should have some combination of impressiveness and redeeming 
>>> technical merit that others could build upon to do good for 
>>> humanity.
>>>
>>> Those who have had the opportunity of attending a previous Stove 
>>> Camp will, of course, know the flavor of what is appropriate.
>>>
>>> I have had the opportunity to attend a local event, the BSNB4 on 2 
>>> June 2006, where some impressive technology, at early stages of 
>>> development, was presented. One of the presentations,
>>> a T-LUD pellet stove, burning a 25 pound bag of wood pellets in 15 
>>> minutes, had a few rough edges, but it certainly brings the T-LUD 
>>> to a new height. A suitable exhaust hood would, of course, be 
>>> required for safe indoor use. See picture. In this photo, it was 
>>> being used to take the chill off the night air, when the bonfire 
>>> proved inadequate. The Diameter of the T-LUD was about 14" (35.56 
>>> CM) and flame height was about 8' (243.84 CM), suggesting a Flame 
>>> Length to Stove Diameter ratio of about 6.85 to 1. With a bit more 
>>> secondary air, flame length could be shortened, but this would tend 
>>> to blue up the flame, and reduce its radiation characteristics. CO 
>>> and Particulate emissions, however, would also be expected to 
>>> improve. Underfire air was provided through the white 100 mm blast 
>>> tube (4" sewer pipe) by a fan system (not shown). In that this is 
>>> the work of others, I am not at liberty to provide much further 
>>> detail at this time.
>>>
>>> Later on in the evening, a propane fired Digerydoo was demonstrated 
>>> for the entertainment of the Guests. Since this also was the work 
>>> of others, at an early stage of development, I cannot release 
>>> construction and operating details without permission of the 
>>> Developer at this time. The technology employed to change the pitch 
>>> of the notes was especially interesting.
>>>
>>> So, depending on the "rules of the road", and the degree top which 
>>> the Voters could over-rule the instruments and the sensibilities of 
>>> the Judges, a T-LUD of this nature, with a few improvements, could 
>>> indeed have a chance to win the coveted KSCPA.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>



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