[Stoves] Patent Protection or the Lack of It

[Nathan G Johnson]

All,

Yeah, the patent game can be somewhat interesting. From conversations with
many of you I think all of us simply want 'our' technologies out there to
benefit society. I agree the more that use the technology the merrier. If
your have a non-profit organization producing it, theoretically you should
be able to produce and sell it for a lower cost than the capitalist firm.
However you may have technology barriers that limit production, which can be
another issue.

I just undertook a stoves project in the Philippines with much the same
problem -- an outside profiteer was trying to take the design. However, the
local host had set up a non-profit that could make it at much lower cost, so
the other company won't be able to keep up ... unless that profiteer cut
corners. Which brings up another issue, bad copies.

To overshadow the bad copies the local host has set up specific producers
and distributors to produce the correct design. For the time being they will
make the stoves to get them partially integrated in the communities and to
increase awareness. Likely later others will copy the design as there isn't
much one can do to stop copying a clay stove in the Philippines. After some
time the design plans can be let out as it will be established that the
non-profit has authority over the true and correct model. Then the others
would need to say this stove is the this is the "XYZ" design from "ABC
company". Others who sold the counterfeit models would lessen their business
due to poor quality and word traveling that their designs don't work as good
as others. This will be pretty easy to see in the project area as groups of
families often cook in the same location, in the same 'kitchen area'. Its
not perfect as people can still cut corners and sell their stove, but it
restricts them a bit. Not the best-case scenario, but better than nothing.

Getting awareness of the project was important. The local host put the
design on TV and in newspapers to advertise and demonstrate who was first
and had the correct design. It may help in your projects to do something
similar. Also you can establish your authority over the design by
documenting it via drawings and pictures. Then enclose these documents in a
certified mailing from the postal service, sent to yourself. You can do this
in the US, not sure about other countries. When you certify the mail or
provide the postal service with a record of your mailing it can act as a
'place marker' of when you completed your work. This can serve as
documentation of who was first if a big-muscle profiteer tries to squeeze
you out of the market by saying you copied 'his' design.

I am happy to pass on ideas and designs to others to increase their use. As
long as they are kept at a price that is reasonably accessible for the
intended market and not hiked up for profits. Otherwise, the more production
and use, the better.

I will send out a short report and photos of the stoves in the next week or
two. Much thanks to all those who I have spoke with and kept designs public
to allow me to make the project that much better.

Cheers.
Nate


On 6/26/06, Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
>
> Harry, AD et al.,
> There is another recourse to the patent game....Where the usurper
> cannot see the need t o share, then you can use them to create the
> market for what you made in the first place. You know best how the
> design can be altered-- "tweaked " ---as it were, then you do so and go
> for it. A kinder version of this is to introduce something new but
> related using the theif's marketing efforts to make the concept
> popular. I don't make a practice of this but all too many are not nice.
> Richard
>
> What goes round comes around...
> Richard Stanley
> On Jun 25, 2006, at 6:06 PM, Harry Stokes wrote:
>
> > Dear Dr. Karve,
> >
> > Your words are very wise.  When others take credit for your ideas, you
> > know
> > that you have won the argument.  This is an old saying among
> > politicians.
> >
> > For the thoughtful person, finding the answer and successfully
> > conveying it
> > is worth more than a fortune!
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > P.S. Congratulations on the recent Ashden Award
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> > [mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of adkarve
> > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 6:46 AM
> > To: stoves at listserv.repp.org
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Central channel combustion stoves.
> > WasRE:HensonCenterFiure Burner System
> >
> > I agree with Richard that it takes a lot of money to defend one's
> > patent and
> > that the true winners are lawyers on both the sides. We have for
> > instance
> > registered the design of our Sarai cooker. But a multimillionnare
> > capitalist
> > has blatantly copied it and is selling it. We are just too small and
> > too
> > poor to sue him. All we can do is to congratulate him for having
> > decided to
> > do what we wanted to do,  namely to disseminate our technology!
> > I consulted an industrialist friend of mine about this. He told me
> > that the
> > life of a patent is about 17 years. Any clever lawyer can keep the case
> > before the court of law undecided and pending for that period, and
> > after the
> > 17 years are over, the case is thrown out, because the cause for
> > litigation
> > does not exist any longer.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> > To: Stoves List <stoves at listserv.repp.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Central channel combustion stoves. Was
> > RE:HensonCenterFiure Burner System
> >
> >
> >> Dear stovers,
> >> The following  two  cents, on innovation and control and recognition
> >> stems from Paul's good insights this morning...
> >>
> >>   As Einstein put it (and probably several others before him) you
> >> cannot
> >> solve tomorrow's  problems with todays thinking (--or something to
> >> that
> >> effect) . This whole notion of ownership and intellectual property
> >> rights is fast becoming outmoded in light of the very internet
> >> mechanism we are now using to communicate. It is very likely that some
> >> cave (or cavish) person invented the wheel and that another discovered
> >> infrared reflectance, stack effect and pot scrubbing distances etc.,
> >> in
> >> observing/ grunting/ burning himself/ herself around a simple wood
> >> fire.
> >>
> >> That they did not patent it, much less  articulate it in print, should
> >> not have ever been a license for us to ignore the strength of their
> >> experience and the lore which they directly or indirectly passed on to
> >> us.
> >>
> >> Instead we have now inherited this notion of protecting an idea as
> >> your
> >> own, defending it in our courts, making sure that if you can just
> >> tweak
> >> your idea a bit you can screw the other guy before he does you...great
> >> system for one culture working within itself, for a while anyway...
> >>
> >>   Nowhowever, comes the internet : All of the sudden we have to figure
> >> out how to keep our turf intact, while it is being exposed to everyone
> >> and their uncle globally --and we do not have Gates' money or
> >> influence
> >> to protect our ideas...
> >>
> >> Now lest we fall into a "socialist mess" like all "them commies"
> >> did...
> >> how does a good capitalist adapt to the emerging reality... How to
> >> participate and get paid for it in an open source environment.
> >>
> >> Does the word "Co-vent" with mutually agreed remuneration apportioned
> >> according to one's participation/ skills, make any sense? Does it make
> >> more sense to pre-plan distribution of the idea and the roles and the
> >> expectations up front, or do we continue to try to protect defend and
> >> play a rear guard action with beloved patents in the global reality of
> >> the internet.
> >>
> >> I can assure you that the silent masses of this planet will continue
> >> to
> >> slip quite efficiently by the WTO in their own survival ethic of
> >> adaptation and that the rest of us, the 20% odd, will never really be
> >> able to squeeze them enough to force them to buy a finished product,
> >> much less than an idea,  when it can be adapted locally. They rarely
> >> have the cash to buy it, they are nearly invisible from an
> >> administrative tracking standpoint  and they  are generally incredibly
> >> resourceful adaptors...
> >>
> >>   So how does the well intended innovator  pro-actively adapt to this
> >> reality:  Share out your idea and get screwed or pay it to a lawyer to
> >> protect it in which case the lawyer wins.
> >>
> >> Our own experience has led us to a notion of "conditional sharing"
> >> with the three caveats that they must 1) refer back to us and the
> >> others  we are working with and from whom we got the idea,   2)
> >> contribute their experience in adapting it and 3) kindly agree to
> >> becoming a referral for others as a resource person (as a private
> >> consultant or gratis: Its up to them). No legal force here just a push
> >> pull opportunity for the recipient. It works quite well actually
> >> --with
> >> individuals and small groups.
> >>
> >> So it goes. the 'conditional sharing' delivery system is far from
> >> perfect but its a start in the new age of internet based development
> >> assistance. Ideas on how to structure this--or not to structure
> >> it--are
> >> most welcome... its just a work in progress....but one which affects
> >> us
> >> all in the larger scheme of things.
> >>
> >>
> >> R Stanley
> >>
> >>
> >> a hollow core fire On Jun 7, 2006, at 8:13 AM, psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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>
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-- 
---------------------------------------------
Nathan G. Johnson
Research Assistant
Virtual Reality Applications Center
Iowa State University

Phone (Skype): (708) 459-8208
www.vrac.iastate.edu/~atlas