[Stoves] Urban poor

Sun May 21 07:24:00 CDT 2006

Dear Tom

Dean is targeting for a $2-$5 stove that is intended to cope with fuels of 
varying moisture and diameter, long life, high performance, 3:1 turndown 
ratio, and clean enough that it is not a health hazard. This is a daunting 
task. However, even if he "fails", and it ends up costing double his target 
price, a $4 to $8 stove would be an awesome achievement.

Your stove sells for about $US55 plus shipping to US Sites. What would you 
estimate would be the cost of getting this stove into the hands of the 
people that Dean is targeting to serve?

You indicate on your website that you are targeting the high end US Camping 
Market now. What is the lowest price you feel you could make the stove 
available for, once you get your volume up?

Given that batteries are a requirement for battery operated stoves, would a 
package consisting of solar cells, a battery charger, and two sets of 
batteries be the cheapest way to enable the stoves to be powered? What would 
you estimate the cost of such a power pack to be?

What would you feel would be other potentially feasible ways of getting the 
power required to operate battery powered stoves in the markets Dean is 
targeting to serve?

Best wishes,

Kevin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Reed" <tombreed at comcast.net>
To: "Dean Still" <dstill at epud.net>
Cc: "'STOVES'" <STOVES at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: [Stoves] Urban poor

> Dear Dean and All:
>
> Half the world's developing country population is rural and they already 
> are cooking with wood, dung, etc on stoves costing <$10.
> But the other half are urban and they are in bondage to charcoal, kerosene 
> and propane whose prices are soaring.  They are paying >$10/mo for these 
> fuels and a $30 stove burning $3 fuel would be a great boon.  The 
> principles embodied in our WoodGas campstove can be adapted for an urban 
> family. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dean, you showed me a book you were bringing out soon with our WoodGas 
> cookstove.  .  Is it out?
>
> Yours truly,
>
> TOM REED          BEF
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dean Still wrote:
>
>>Dear Kevin,
>>
>>Answering in CAPS in your text below. THESE ANSWERS ALL BEGIN WITH: IN MY
>>HUMBLE OPINION!
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Kevin Chisholm [mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net] Sent: Saturday, May 
>>20, 2006 5:31 PM
>>To: Dean Still; 'STOVES'
>>Subject: Re: [Stoves] RE Adding a fan
>>
>>Dear Dean
>>...del...>
>>
>>>For me research is directed by the goal of a most helpful $2-$5 stove.
>>>
>>
>>What areas of the World require a $2-$5 stove? What about if it ended up 
>>costing $10?
>>
>>I THINK THAT THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE BEST SERVED BY A TEN DOLLAR STOVE BUT
>>THAT THE BASE OF THE PYRAMID IS BETWEEN TWO TO FIVE DOLLARS. HOPE THAT I'M
>>BEING PESSIMISTIC.
>>
>>Does this assume an "owner built stove", or is there an allowance for them 
>>to be made locally, and sold to local people?
>>
>>I AM THINKING ABOUT FACTORY MADE STOVES FOR SALE AT A RETAIL LEVEL.
>>
>> So
>>
>>>far that seems to include, not in order:
>>>
>>>Cooks like how it cooks food
>>>
>>
>>Could you outline what they like, and what they don't like about "how it 
>>cooks food?"
>>
>>IT VARIES SO A STOVE HAS TO BE DESIGNED PER AREA.
>>
>>
>>>Side fed long sticks
>>>
>>
>>What would be the range in diameter of teh sticks, and teh range in 
>>poisture
>>
>>contents?
>>
>>SAME AS ABOVE.
>>
>>
>>>Fast to boil
>>>
>>What is their perception of "fast to boil?"
>>
>>AT LEAST AS FAST AS THE OPEN FIRE SAY ABOUT 25 MINUTES TO BOIL 5 LITRES.
>>
>>
>>>Fuel efficient to simmer (good turndown)
>>>
>>What would be an acceptable turn-down ratio? What is teh maximum targeted 
>>heat input rate, and what is the heat input rate required for simmering?
>>FOUR TO SIX THOUSAND WATTS FOR HIGH POWER. ONE THIRD THAT AT LOW POWER.
>>
>>>Safe
>>>
>>What are the criteria to be met for the stove to be termed "safe?"
>>NO BURNS, DOESN'T TIP OVER, ETC.
>>
>>
>>>When used does not damage health of user (ventilation helps a lot here!!)
>>>
>>Are tehre any stoves that vent inside teh living space that do not damage 
>>health?
>>
>>IF THERE IS A LOT OF VENTILATION A REALLY CLEAN BURNING STOVE CAN BE USED
>>INDOORS WITHOUT IMMEDIATE HEALTH EFFECTS BUT UNVENTED STOVES SHOULD ONLY 
>>BE
>>USED UNDER A VERANDA, ETC. STOVES WITH CHIMNEYS CAN REMOVE ESSENTIALLY ALL
>>POLLUTION FROM THE ROOM.
>>
>>
>>>$2-$5
>>>
>
>>>Long lasting
>>>
>>TWO YEARS?
>>
>>What is the minimum acceptable number of uses for a $2 to $5 stove?
>>
>>>MEETS CONSUMERS REQUIREMENTS WHICH VARY.
>>>I'll try to figure out if a chimney could generate enough force but I'll 
>>>bet
>>>that Tom or Paul already know how much force is needed and you can 
>>>translate
>>>that into chimney height? I think of fans as plugging into the wall 
>>>because
>>>of the $5 cost but that is most likely limited vision on my part.
>>>
>>
>>What percentage of the people using a stove like this would have access to 
>>wall power?
>>
>>NOT SURE.
>>
>>Dean, your comments on teh above would be most helpful to us who are "at a 
>>distance" from the problem. We could get a much better appreciation of 
>>what you are up against.
>>
>>Best wishes for every success.
>>LET'S SUCCEED TOGETHER.
>>
>>Kevin
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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