[Stoves] Safety of stoves and conflicts of interests

[Paul S. Anderson]

Quoting Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>:

> Dear Dean and Paul
>
> The issue of being legal is important.  In some places you sell anything
> that is not illegal (the 'American' model), in some only what is legal (the
> 'Soviet' model).

And I guess we have seen how successful the "Soviet" model was for getting
innovations to the market.   Not!!!!
...
>
> Paul can sell his Lily stove anywhere that is it not illegal to do so.  That
> doesn't make it 'safe. Were there to be even the most basic set of safety
> standards in force, it would include a requirement not to leak if tipped
> over while burning, because that is how nearly all stove-initiated fires
> start.

I am interested in safety, but there are limits.  If an operating Vesto 
stove is
tipped over, flaming fuel could fall out of the top and it could start 
a fire. If an ignited matchstick is dropped, it could start a fire.  A 
child could get
to matches, but matches are not banned.  The Onil stove cannot be tipped over,
but a child could pull a burning stick out of the Rocket hole.  If ANY of the
self-pressurizing alcohol stoves (beverage-can, Trangia, Lily, are there any
others?), there will be spillage of the alcohol.  No explosions, but 
real fire.
It is not a toy.  A three-stove fire is not a toy.  Is a Lily stove more
dangerous than a three-stove fire?  I say it is not even as dangerous.

I do not like the scare-tactic about LPG associated with the photo at that
http://www.paraffinsafety.org/   website that you mentioned.  Maybe the LPG
advocates have an opposing website with scarry info about paraffin stoves.
>
> There are very expensive paraffin stoves for use in sailboats that have very
> low emissions and are really safe even in violent seas. So...why haven't
> they been brought to the mass market?  They cost is now related to the tiny
> sales volumes so it looks like an opportunity going begging.

Correction:  I believe those are alcohol stoves, not paraffin/kerosene stoves
(unless you can cite specific stoves).  The company Dometic AB has an
established business for marine-stoves, and part of the reason for burning
alcohol on boats is that mere water can extinguish the flames, instead 
of water
spreading the flames as occurs with kerosene or petrol-based fuels.  
One of the
great plus factors of the Dometic CleanCook stove (with alcohol) is its
impressive insistance on safety (Dometic is a Swedish company.).  But 
the stove
price has been high.  They are working on getting it lower.  Project 
Gaia people
can give full info.  (I paid about US$140 for a single burner Itago 
unit in the
USA a couple of years ago;  The Cleancook two-burner in Ethiopia is now about
$80;  A single burner version of the Cleancook is to be perhaps $50, or maybe
go as low as US$30.)  I believe that the Lily burners plus associated stove
structure would be one-fifth or one-tenth.  But, AT PRESENT the Lily stove is
not as pretty nor as safe as the CleanCook.  I did not say it was unsafe.

Paul


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