[Stoves] burning dung

Thu Sep 6 01:46:30 EDT 2007

Dear Dr. Karve

Its been a long time since we communicated, hope you are doing fine.

I am on the same page with you on this, and feel that the issue would be
better understood using economics, the economic sense of using high nutrient
and nutrient removed organic manure.

To let you know, progress on the sunderbans-- the raised bed techniques have
been established and transferred to people, its being highly appreciated.

Regards
sujoy chaudhury
Programme Manager
GOAL- India

On 9/6/07, adkarve <adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in> wrote:
>
> Dear enthusiasts of biogas slurry,
> organic manure is required to feed the soil micro-organisms, but why feed
> them with material from which all or most of the
> nutrition has already been removed? If you asked any agronomist the dose
> of
> compost to be applied to a field, he would recommend doses in the
> range of 50 to 100 tons/ha. This means that  biomass from 10 hectares is
> needed
> to fertilize one hectare. This kind of agriculture is just not
> sustainable.  My advice therefore is to feed the soil micro-organisms with
> a
> high calorie, non-composted material, such as green leaves. Just 125 kg
> green leaves (25 kg on dry weight basis), applied to a hectare once every
> two to three months is all the manure that one needs to apply to a field.
> We are today facing an energy crunch.  Therefore,
> burn all the dung without scruples to extract all the energy ouyt of it.
> If you want to feed the micro-organisms in the soil, apply 25 kg dry
> matter
> having high nutritive value like sugar, green leaves, waste starch,
> cellulose,
> protein, fat etc. per hectare. My biogas system also works on the same
> principle and it is therefore 400 times as efficient as the dung based
> biogas system.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Juan Galarza <jcg at intiresources.com>
> To: 'adkarve' <adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [Digestion] Electricite generation
>
>
> You are missing the point of the added value of the biofertilizer and the
> sanitation process, which seems to be more important that the biogas.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ing. Juan Galarza
> Presidente
> INTIRESOURCES CIA.LTD.
> TEL: (5939)7895013
> FAX:(5932)2569227
> www.intiresources.com
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] En nombre de adkarve
> Enviado el: lunes, 03 de septiembre de 2007 19:18
> Para: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Asunto: Re: [Digestion] Electricite generation
>
> If you just want heat to poduce steam for running a steam turbine, you can
> as well burn the biomass directly, without converting it into biogas. A kg
> of dry dung, burned in the form of dung cakes, would yield 2200 kcal
> energy.
> The same amount of dung would yield only 660 kcal energy, if it were
> converted into biogas and burned.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruno M. <brunoM1 at telenet.be>
> To: <Digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Electricite generation
>
>
> Maybe you need ( already) to rethink your endeavor,
>
> If I understand it correctly you have biogas from a digester( CH4 + CO2 )
> you like to blow that in a boiler to produce steam,
> then you gonna blow that steam into a expensive turbine,
> that drives a generator that makes electricity
>
> for your own use or selling to the grid).
> And you think blowing the rest steam of the
> turbine back into the boiler will help?
>
> To expensive and to complex i believe, on every
> conversion you gonna loose energy.
> so leave out the boiler and the expensive turbine and blow your biogas
> into an adapted motor ( ICE), that is coupled to a generator,
> find a use for the waste heat from the ICE, e.g. heating a greenhouse
> ( than you can also use the CO2 containing exaust gas as fertilizer),
> or heating your digester.
>
> Also, in your proposed setup there will be no
> real gain by blowing the turbine exit steam
> back into the boiler.
> Why?
> Let say you make 10 bar wet steam ( = 184°C ) you blow that steam
> in the turbine, you will get energy out as
> rotation of the shaft to run your generator,
> what comes out of your turbine is steam ( and
> water droplets) with a temp lower than
> 184° C. How you gonna heat your boiler who needs to get above 184°C
> with steam that is colder? ( wile your boiler is
> working the water will be constant on 184°C,
> and al heat input will then be used to convert
> water from 184°C to steam (-vapor)
> of the same temp; so there will be no real use
> (gain) for a fluidum with a temp below 184°C
> to help (pre-)heat the boiler.
>
> Maybe you can start with telling us about your system you already have
> ( how much gas a day you produce now, and whats the quality) ,
> and what your future needs are ( electricity and heat ).
>
>
> grts
> Bruno M.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> At 12:22 3/09/2007, Francois wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I am looking for a system to produce electricite out
> >of biogaz - most likely a cogeneration steam turbine
> >that reuses the exhaust to preheat the boiler for max
> >energy efficiency.
> >Does anyone know of trade marks, sellers etc.
> >Cheers and thanks
> >Francois
> >==================================================================
>
>
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