[Stoves] Binder for those who do not have

Mon Mar 24 21:42:39 CDT 2008

Dear Michael,

Is cassava available in Marshall Island? If so, cassava root has high starch content and the stalk has also some starch content. Cassava starch is an excellent binder and most cartoon box manufacturers use it.

Kind regards,

Ross dela Cruz

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Today's Topics:

   1. Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer (John Olsen)
   2. Re: Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer (IPC)
   3. latex paint as densification binder? (jim mason)
   4. Re: latex paint as densification binder? (IPC)
   5. Re: Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer
      (acparker at xmission.com)
   6. Binder for those who do not have (Michael N Trevor)
   7. Re: Binder for those who do not have (Tom Miles)
   8. Re: Binder for those who do not have (acparker at xmission.com)
   9. Re: Binder for those who do not have (George Riegg Gambia)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:17:59 -0500
From: "John Olsen" 
Subject: [Stoves] Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer
To: 
Message-ID: <000901c88dd3$0279c610$6401a8c0 at JohnsPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This subject has been on my mind for a while.
We started extruding fish bones, mixed with fertilizers, and secret
ingredients, to make logs, ( which slowly dissolve in rivers to help bring
back fish and ph levels ), and the fish meal, due to the Mad-Cow scare
became very valuable, as animal feed.
We started extruding molasses, and seed, and vitamin, and drug additives,
for animal licks, and the costs of in-feed materiel became excessive.
I believe, the composition of the in-feed materiel, must always be known,
and  the machines must be kept clean and sterile.
Look up "Castor" for one deadly seed, its oil is the famous "Castor oil".
I agree that we need to utilize more agricultural grasses, hemp, flax,
bagasse, nut shells,  etc., The World of energy, is changing daily.
Using human food as fuel  ( corn or wheat ), always seemed silly to me.
John Olsen
Cree Industries.

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:51:02 +0200
From: "IPC" 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"

Message-ID: <001c01c88dd7$a9b3d840$6500000a at private95a3azq>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

No one seems to want to talk about the largest source of biomass I know of -
forestry trash.  Commercial operations take logs and leave tons of branches/
twigs etc. I have always been told it is too expensive to harvest this
trash, but I have never been able to work out why the costs are claimed to
be so high, and if fuel is short, it presents a huge opportunity.

Philip Lloyd 

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Samson
Sent: 24 March 2008 06:42
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer

Paul 

With rising feed prices there are now few biofuel applications for
byproducts of food/feed processing. In Canada two years ago we had
widespread use of wheat bran as a heating fuel, now its too expensive as
feed prices have increased. 

The only materials that are suitable for biofuel applications are high fibre
residuals that have low feed value and livestock performance, the only
things we see as sustainable residues in Canada are flax shives, oat hulls
and sunflower hulls. Even crop residues are being more highly valued by
farmers as fertilizer prices rise and farmers realize the benefits of crops
residue for soil fertility and soil maintenance to grow their now high value
food crops.  

The terra preta idea with carbonizing feedstocks is not going to make it as
an economically viable concept. The best applications we see for carbonized
residuals like carbonized rice husk is in high value vegetable applications.

Even sawdust here in north America is reaching $100/tonne. The only solution
is to start farming biomass crops like erianthus and napiergrass to create
large -low cost volumes of biomass for energy applications. The grass root
systems improve the soil and the ash can be recycled back to the land. Some
tropical grasses also fix large quantities of N.  That way you can have fuel
and not exhaust soils. I think species like erianthus that are well adapted
to marginal soils are particularly promising.  We need to briquette and
pellet grasses for stoves and boiler use in developing countires, it's one
of the most promising solution to the energy problems they face.  

cheers

Roger Samson

Executive Director

REAP-Canada

Box 125 Centennial Centre CCB13

Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9

T: (514) 398-7743

T: (514) 398-7972

E: rsamson at reap-canada.com

W: www.reap-canada.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Paul S. Anderson
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:13 PM
To: STOVES - Listserve
Subject: [Stoves] Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer

Stovers,

When a biomass "waste" can be used as an animal feed or as a fuel in some
stove or furnace, which is more economical?  Assume that the animals and the
suitable stoves/furnaces are present in the same region.

When vegetable oil seeds (sunflower, soya, - name more, please) are pressed,
the product is the oil and the by-product (almost as co-product) is
"press-cake"
of
some type.  The press-cake is what I am interested in.  Some types (pure or
mixed with other low-value biomass) could probably be compressed into
briquettes or densified into pellets.

Currently, much?? press-cake is used as animal feeds.  Would it be more
valuable as a fuel?  I am sure there are considerable variations and
situations, so please clearly state the circumstances to which your replies
are relevant.

Can we assume that the values as feeds or fuels are higher than as
fertilizer?

Paul
--
Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Geography professor - Emeritus
Telephone:  USA-309-452-7072 (residence and office) Internet site:
www.ilstu.edu/~psanders For my gasifier stoves info, go to:
http://bioenergylists.org/contributors#Paul_Anderson

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:20:44 -0700
From: "jim mason" 
Subject: [Stoves] latex paint as densification binder?
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
 ,  "STOVES at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG"

Cc: Shannon OHare , Kimric

Message-ID:
 <31a4f6f00803241120o7d073fe9obc1260b10649a06b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

a friend just proposed to me using latex paint as a binder for
briquetting and/or pelleting.  latex paint dries via coalescence so
does not resolvent with water after it is dried.  this would help much
when densified fuels are used in closed top gasifiers.  latex paint is
everywhere, often needing disposal.

does anyone here know specifics about latex paint chemistry?  it
appears to me that they are all without any chlorines, so that is at
least a good start.  latex paint is so highly regulated that i'd guess
its composition is pretty benign.  folk wisdom says you can burn wood
with latex paint on it, but not oil paint, as it often has lead.

can anyone elaborate on the chemical particulars of latex paint?

jim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jim mason
website: www.whatiamupto.com
current project: mechabolic (http://www.mechabolic.org)
announce list: http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:52:11 +0200
From: "IPC" 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] latex paint as densification binder?
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"

Message-ID: <002601c88de0$2c09ce50$6500000a at private95a3azq>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Most "latex" paints contain water emulsions of vinyl acetate which
polymerises as it dries to form polyvinyl acetate or "PVA".  They also
contain inorganic colorants (typically white pigments such as limestone or
titanium oxide) and sometimes organic colorants as well, and a host of other
things to, for instance, control their flow properties so you can paint the
ceiling without the paint dripping off. Some of the more expensive latex
paints also contain acrylates rather than acetates, but from the point of
view of this discussion that makes little difference.  The important thing
is that once dried they will most likely burn without emitting much toxic
gas. The inorganic pigments will, of course, not burn, but the dry paint
should act as a satisfactory binder.  

Regards

Philip Lloyd 

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of jim mason
Sent: 24 March 2008 08:21
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification;
STOVES at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
Cc: Shannon OHare; Kimric
Subject: [Stoves] latex paint as densification binder?

a friend just proposed to me using latex paint as a binder for briquetting
and/or pelleting.  latex paint dries via coalescence so does not resolvent
with water after it is dried.  this would help much when densified fuels are
used in closed top gasifiers.  latex paint is everywhere, often needing
disposal.

does anyone here know specifics about latex paint chemistry?  it appears to
me that they are all without any chlorines, so that is at least a good
start.  latex paint is so highly regulated that i'd guess its composition is
pretty benign.  folk wisdom says you can burn wood with latex paint on it,
but not oil paint, as it often has lead.

can anyone elaborate on the chemical particulars of latex paint?

jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
jim mason
website: www.whatiamupto.com
current project: mechabolic (http://www.mechabolic.org) announce list:
http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:56:03 -0700
From: acparker at xmission.com
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Biomass fuel vs animal feed vs fertilizer
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
Message-ID: <47E81563.D78BB008 at xmission.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Roger,

What are the economic incentives for a farmer to replace high value
crops targeted for human and animal consumption with lower value crops
for fuel?  Even under a socialist economy, the government is going to
favor crops that bring higher earnings.

>From a humanitarian perspective, replacing food production with biofuel
production is just plain wrong!  Even the recent price spikes caused by
the speculation in food crops as fuel has caused global distress, as
well as the sudden increase in the value of crop waste as food.

Some logical options could be to burn animal manure (or biogas digester
waste), raise fuel crops on what is considered to be
non-arable/non-grazing lands, get creative with aquatic plants, target
noxious weeds (cheat grass, kudzu, phragmites, etc.).

[I am now stepping on my soapbox so please feel free to stop reading, if
you haven't already.]

Assuming that Global Warmi... oops, I mean "Climate Change", is
inevitable (neat trick, of course climate change is inevitable), why are
we rushing to implement policies that create real, tangible, immediate
human caused suffering and death simply to line the pockets of His
Holiness, Al Gore, and the pack of opportunist politicians and
entrepreneurs seeking to soothe the souls of his smug, gullible,
self-loathing, irrational, affluent followers?  How is this morally
superior to "Blood for Oil"?

Let us all take a step back, breathe deep (to compensate for the higher
CO2 levels) and re-evaluate what we are doing.  The sky may be falling,
but it is going to take a few generations to get here, if it ever gets
that far.  There is plenty of time to make gradual, sane adjustments
that will not disrupt economies or cause artificial famine.

Climate change IS inevitable.  It is natural.  We must always be
flexible enough to adapt to climate change.  The challenge in a global
society is to adapt in a way that minimizes disruption to those around
us as well as those who live on the other side of the world.

Andrew P.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:32:19 +1200
From: "Michael N Trevor" 
Subject: [Stoves] Binder for those who do not have
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" 
Message-ID: <002101c88d89$aee0c060$8e0319ac at USER2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
 reply-type=original

Sitting here on the Pacific sand pile watching the world go by.
I have thought over and over again what could I try as a binder.
About the stickest thing here is breadfruit tree sap. 
The idea of water based house paint is close to brilliant.
However it immediately brough to mind what about 
Elmer's concrete binder or glue. Aren't these essentially water based
casein products might even be cheaper than house paint and high dilutable
as well?  

Michael N Trevor
Enemanit
Marshall Islands

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:01:28 +1300
From: "Tom Miles" 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Binder for those who do not have
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"

Message-ID: <009a01c88e0b$61665520$2432ff60$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Michael,

If you are using a high pressure briquetter or pelletizer like a firelog
maker and a dry material you can blend in about 5% we pulp like stingy fiber
and it will tie things together nicely. You just need a good mixer before
the briquetter.

Tom

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:03:59 -0700
From: acparker at xmission.com
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Binder for those who do not have
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
Message-ID: <47E84F7F.51F00CDF at xmission.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Michael,

Would seaweed glue (the Japanese call it, funori) work?  I am not an
expert.  I just googled "seaweed" and "glue".  I couldn't find a useful
reference for its production -- yet.  I think it is similar to agar
production.

Andrew P.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:35:06 -0000
From: "George Riegg Gambia" 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Binder for those who do not have
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" 
Message-ID: <006901c88e10$1336d280$7a443cd4 at jacqui>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

tom

are you aware if this would also work with a relatively low pressure hand
operated briquetter - like the legacy one? most micro projects set up in the
third world have no capital access to power assisted machinery.

cheers
george
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Miles" 
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Binder for those who do not have

> Michael,
>
> If you are using a high pressure briquetter or pelletizer like a firelog
> maker and a dry material you can blend in about 5% we pulp like stingy
fiber
> and it will tie things together nicely. You just need a good mixer before
> the briquetter.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> Stoves at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org

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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 21, Issue 37
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