[Stoves] The round wick kerosene lamp/stove

Tue Jan 6 08:11:23 CST 2009

Dear Trevor:

I had the Alladin Lamp series in mind and have never seen the Toyoset 
stove.  Are they similar?

TOM REED

Tom Reed
Biomass Energy & Carbon
Chief Scientist
http://www.biomassec.com

Michael N. Trevor wrote:
> Dear Dr. Reed
> Would you mean like an Alladin Lamp or the Japanese Toyoset stove?
> Thank You---
> Michae N Trevor
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Reed" <tombreed at comcast.net>
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at listserv.repp.org>
> Cc: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:31 AM
> Subject: [Stoves] The round wick kerosene lamp/stove
>
>
>> Dear ND TLUD STOVERS:
>>
>> Consider the round wick kerosene lamp and stove.
>>
>>    * It uses a beautiful "gallery" of 2 mm holes to inject aspirated
>>      air into the wicking kerosene vapor
>>    * The gallery achieves an adequate interface between the 1000 air
>>      inlets and the rising kerosene vapor from the wick and mixes 15 g
>>      of air with each g of K vapor
>>    * It probably took 50 years to develop after kerosene became a world
>>      fuel
>>    * The lamp uses a chimney, but if you tried to cook at the top of
>>      the chimney the heat would have been conducted away.
>>    * I think there may be a cook stove variety.  If so, buy one and
>>      copy it.  If not, give up.
>>
>> In haste,
>>
>> TOM
>>
>> Tom Reed
>> Biomass Energy & Carbon
>> Chief Scientist
>> http://www.biomassec.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul S. Anderson wrote:
>>> I also congratulate Sai Baskar for  his innovative work.  This is how
>>> we all
>>> learn and progress.
>>>
>>> My comments relate to what Crispin wrote:
>>>
>>> Quoting Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is important to see that all the flames have reached the outer
>>>> wall of
>>>> the combustion chamber. This is not so good. The flame will chill
>>>> against
>>>> the outer shell and increase the CO level in that region.
>>>>
>>> I think I disagree.  These are not regular flames of hot gases
>>> entering into a
>>> mass of air.  These are inverted flames of air entering into a mass of
>>> hot
>>> gases (as Crispin correctly noted later in his message).  As such, if
>>> the air
>>> jet reaches the outside cylinder, it spreads out the air stream and
>>> does not
>>> cool the gases against the cylinder.  I am not advocating massive jets
>>> of air
>>> to that wall, but experimentation is justified.  Might have desirable
>>> results
>>> such as keeping CO from sneaking up the side walls.
>>>
>>> I totally agree with Crispin's next comments:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In addition, there is still a triangular region between each of the
>>>> flames
>>>> through which it is possible to pass at least some smoke that remains
>>>> unburned.
>>>> So.I suggest that without changing anything else, increase the 
>>>> number of
>>>> holes, completing a ring of holes in the same vertical position as
>>>> the '8th
>>>> hole', but recalculating the hole diameter to the total area 
>>>> remains the
>>>> same.
>>>>
>>> I have not read that the hole diameters and associated secondary air
>>> flows have
>>> been rigorously calculated and/or emperically tested to get the proper
>>> amount
>>> of secondary air.  Yes for more holes, but experiment on how much 
>>> air is
>>> needed.  Unfortunately, without CO emissions testing, it is a 
>>> qualitative
>>> "impression" of when the right amount of air is present, not a
>>> quantitative
>>> measurement.
>>>
>>>> There will then be 14 flames radiating from the centre, giving what
>>>> may be
>>>> 100% coverage of the combustion chamber, but with the total area of 
>>>> the
>>>> secondary air holes being equal to the present 8 holes. If there 
>>>> are any
>>>> holes through to top plate (it appears there are) leave them closed.
>>>
>>> Maybe.  Better to just test to see if there is any impact of having
>>> those holes
>>> open or closed.
>>>
>>> One other thing to test is the use of a "concentrator disk" or "lid"
>>> as is found
>>> in Paal Wendelbo's Peko Pe TLUD and in my Champion TLUD (and in our
>>> current
>>> joint efforts in India).  The concept applies to bringing the
>>> flames/gases/air
>>> together through a constriction to cause increased mixing and the
>>> avoid the
>>> "wafflely" wavering nature of gentle flames.  Because of the
>>> innovative entry
>>> of the secondary air via the vertical central pipe, the "lid" might
>>> have a 4 to
>>> 6 inch (10 or 15 cm) diameter hole in a lid that covers over a 7 or 8
>>> inch
>>> diameter fuel cylinder.   This might eliminate the need for any hole
>>> in the
>>> outside cylinder.  Only experimentation will clarify this question.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, and please keep us posted on your progress (including
>>> telling us
>>> things that do not work.)
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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