[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 39

Thu Jan 29 16:13:14 CST 2009

Tom,

We hear this a lot, even from stovers themselves. There was considerable
discussion at the recent ETHOS meeting about ways to overcome the misuse,
hacking, etc. We need to realize that as of 2009, with more than 1.4 million
stoves installed by some of the 250 PCIA partners alone and more than 14
million stoves expected to be installed in the next few years by the same
organizations, there is a very wide variety of circumstances of people,
fuels, cultures and use. Some percentage will get hacked for reasons that
are pretty well known. Some other percentage will get misused for reasons
that are completely unfathomable. 

Many of these stoves have been and are being developed by engineers,
technicians, food specialists, and social workers who have spent years in
the field. Organizations like TWP, Aprovecho, ARTI and others on the list
have extensive field experience and on-the-ground field personnel who go
nuts keeping up with all of the bizarre things people do to stoves. Even to
those stoves that have been developed primarily as a response to local
needs. 

Many stoves are now meeting the "market" test in other ways. Some stoves are
being mass manufactured to meet bigger demands. Not every appliance fits
every circumstance. Discussions at ETHOS 2009 and similar meetings are
usually about how to accommodate consumer needs and reactions to stoves.
TWP, ONIL and others discussed the problems of keeping up with higher
production. Philips reported that they are learning a lot from their current
test in 80 homes. Their stove for India has changed substantially in just
two years.      

It is well known that monitoring, follow up etc. are essential to proper
stove use. The reality is that many programs to disseminate stoves do not
fund the follow up work. And, the circumstances and funding of programs
changes over the years. 

Tom
www.bioenergylists.org

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of tom abeles
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:16 PM
To: stoves at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 39

hi Folks

Given the two contributions below, I am wondering if there are any
marketing, sociology or tech transfer studies on stove adoption and use (as
designed). There has been, as this list shows, a great deal of high quality
work on stove designs for fuel efficiency and health and my sense is that
most of this work has been done by folks like EWB- tech oriented. On the
other hand, TWP and others claim sales/installation of 100's of these
environmental and energy efficient stoves. Yet as the notes below point out,
many stoves are "hacked", not used or used in a manner for which they were
not designed. I am reminded of a biogas project by some colleagues many
years ago. When water was piped into the gas lines to the homes to test for
leaks, the residents just wanted the project to keep running water in the
pipes and not biogas.

Maybe it's time that the stoves were ripped out of the hands of the
engineers and turned over to the "marketing department"? In many cases logic
and rational reasons are used to justify what the "heart" wants or doesn't
want.

Thoughts?

tom

tom abeles
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Peru Stove Projects? (Charlie Sellers)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:48:46 -0800 (PST)
> From: Charlie Sellers <csellers42 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Peru Stove Projects?
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <538227.16651.qm at web52004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I met Laurie and Steve at ETHOS and support their conclusions about 
> more instructions completely - EWB Princeton students have a project in
Huamanzana (coastal sand dune area north of Trujillo, beyond the town of
Chao - which is on the Pan American highway) and all sample stoves made
during the first year (2007) were hacked to increase the fuel opening (as
well as other changes).  The second year (2008) we improved the design and I
spent 3 days after each installation visiting the family with my measurement
tools and small gifts of dry wood that was suitably sized - for discussions
and encouragement.  The main problem is that no stove brings water to a boil
faster than a well tended 3 stone fire, and time elapsed until the meal is
ready is their highest priority (saving time collecting firewood in this
mostly cactus studded desert turns out to be not much of one, and this seems
to be true of smoke reduction in the kitchen as well).  Typically the first
day they continued to use their traditional stoves, on the second they may
use both, and on the third hopefully they were persuaded by the aggregate of
benefits offered by the new one (not any one attribute).
> 
> But we won't know until the next visit whether this new batch of stoves is
being used as it should (remember, no instruction manuals are allowed), and
then whether they are actually saving wood for families - reducing IAP with
a chimney stove is far easier than getting people to adopt the many methods
we know of for reducing wood consumption via improving both combustion and
heat transfer efficiencies.
> 
> Our biggest problem is finding decent stove components - in our case also
all planchas and grates arer made by local blacksmiths and welders, the
flimsy metal chimneys had to come all the way from Trujillo (they were
favored over our hollow brick design, because they seem more modern), and we
never found a decent refractory brick source we could access in time.  Good
bricks can be custom made but you have to plan far ahead - and once some are
made then we should spread them to all Peru stove projects!  Let me know if
I can help with this and other aspects.
> 
> If you Google on "Peru" plus "improved stoves" you will find loads of
references, and "Huamanzana" plus "stove" will lead you to many references
on the Princeton project - and all can contact me offline about my favorite
ones.
> 
> Charlie
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Laurie Iaccino <laurieiaccino at hotmail.com>
> To: stoves at listserv.repp.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:58:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Peru Stove Projects?
> 
> 
> hi there, 
> I (Laurie Iaccino ) and my partner (Steve Bouton) are in the Cuzco area
doing stove projects.   We are a long way away from Lima though.  but  i
thought i would share some of our experience.  we were here almost 2 years
ago and worked in 3 villages in the Cuzco area building 100 stoves.  we did
surveys but more in the way of health surveys and as it turns out not nearly
enough teaching about the stoves.  this was discovered when we returned and
re-visited the villages to do the follow up health testing.  of the people
we were able to visit (homes are upwards to 14000 feet and nearly impossible
to reach) many had de-constructed their stoves (a sort of Lorena model with
a rocket chamber of thick metal (yes, bad idea)2 burners and chimney).
reasons for this appeared to be: (a) not enough hands on instruction because
we could not always get to the homes, they needed to meet with us which did
not dependably happen.  (b) up in these elevations it is not just
>  about cooking.  their traditional 3-stone fireplace also provides heat.
and the opening of the rocket did not provide enough heat. (c) many did not
prepare their wood properly and often used branches of eucalyptus with dried
leaves attached and all just stuffed into the rocket. and (d) finally the
metal rocket, for the folks who did try to use the stove properly, developed
holes in spite of its thickness and weight of 7 kg.  interestingly enough
the problem was not in lighting it tho, it was the holes that developed
after 1 year.
> 
> now we are in a small village at a lower elevation and working with 10 
> families and building a stove that has been in part designed by the 
> residents.  it has a chimney and is made of 18 adobe bricks.  we have 
> a local welder who has made us chimneys and grates, and painted the 
> part of the chimney that is outside with a waterproof paint.  of 
> course the chimney has a hat, as well.  the burn chamber is larger 
> than our rocket was and made of a mix of arcilla, fine dirt, mud, and 
> a liquid extracted from a planty called paqpa, a type of cactus that 
> our friends in the village says makes it more durable and water proof. 
> we are hoping it addresses the heat issue.  it has two burners again 
> but each will accomodate 2 different size pots. so, families provide 
> the local materials: (arcilla or clay, fine tierra (dirt), mud and 
> this extracted liquid and also pay 30 soles.  we provide the chimneys, 
> rejillas, (or grates) and the retention cooker and various other 
> things  aiding in improved hygiene.  (with our past experience, its 
> always better to have them have ownership, and to realize that an 
> improved stove is not the only thing that improves the lives of the 
> people we have come to work with in the andes.)
> 
> we are still doing health surveys but this time we are asking more
questions about the type of food they cook, and hygiene issues.  we are also
giving each family a large basket that we are teaching them to use as a
retention cooker.  here they simply will not cook on a one pot stove.  our
hope is to teach them to make things like potatoes, rice or soups by first
boiling for a certain number of minutes over the cookstove and then putting
the pots in a basket lined with rice sacks filled with either paja (grasses)
or other insulating materials such as blnkets, pillows etc.  then they have
2 burners still free and also when they head to their farmland, food can be
cooking while they are working and ready when they get home. i am using one
now in our apartment and have made soups, rice and potatoes.
> 
> so forgive me for going on.  i would advise you locate local people to
help you design something that uses local materials.  sometimes hiding in
these villages are a few people who have put something together already.
and these folks are often willing to work and help out their compa?eros.
and to think about what they eat and if they need the stove for heat.  just
a few ideas.  hopefully its a bit helpful.
> 
> soon we will be posting pictures on our blog and also the design of 
> our stove and the survey tool.  the address is 
> http://pencilsforperu.blogspot.com
> sincerely,
> Laurie and Steve
> 
> 
>       
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> 
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 39
> **************************************

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