[Strawbale] Strawbale Digest, Vol 10, Issue 24
Michelle Moore
cupri at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 24 15:27:45 CDT 2007
The Eco Learning Center in Traverse City, MI is still looking for people interested in building workshop facilitation. We are focusing on natural building techniques using local and recycled materials. We're currently working on renovating a small corn silo into a strawbale building and planning to build the frame for the shed portion of a bioshelter, using local timber.
We're looking for people who like to teach and collaborate as they build. The Eco Learning Center is a small organic/biodynamic CSA farm and sustainable living education center. You can visit our web site at www.ecolearningcenter.org.
If you're interested you can reply to Michelle at cupri at yahoo.com or call Jayne Leatherman-Walker at 231-620-4775.
Thanks!
Michelle
----- Original Message ----
From: "strawbale-request at listserv.repp.org" <strawbale-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:34:41 PM
Subject: Strawbale Digest, Vol 10, Issue 24
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and boilers vs.
hot water heaters (Shody Ryon)
2. Re: Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and boilers vs.
hot water heaters (Shody Ryon)
3. Re: Carbide Lime (Alan Mason)
4. Looking for Plaster Hair source (Chris Arai)
5. Re: Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and boilers vs.
hot water heaters (David Neeley)
6. Window bucks - if you wrap bales *outside* the frame?
(rhysh at webone.com.au)
7. Re: Looking for Plaster Hair source (Stone Tool)
8. Re: Looking for Plaster Hair source (Kate Bastedo)
9. Re: Looking for Plaster Hair source (Rob Tom)
10. Re: Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and boilers vs.
hot water heaters (Shody Ryon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shody Ryon <qi4u at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and
boilers vs. hot water heaters
To: Strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <838391.74493.qm at web90604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I might be wrong. It doesn't make sense that evacuated
tubes would be used for very high temps and be
considered less efficient.
In the book "Solar Water Heating" Page 27 states;
?Since their conception much has been said about the
efficiency of evacuated tube collectors. They are
commonly heralded around the solar industry as a more
efficient collector. If you were just to look at the
collector designs' that is a n easy assumption to
make. Normally, if you reduce heat losses, in this
case by the vacuum of the tubes, you would increase
efficiency. So it may sound counterintuitive if I tell
you that flat plate collectors are actually more
efficient for all residential and most commercial
applications even though they are not as well
insulated. It takes more than a clever design to
produce hot water. It takes a system that is
appropriately designed to do what you want it to do.
The measure of a collector's efficiency should be how
well they preform when put to use. The best way to
measure that is through an independent testing
organization.?
Paraphrasing:
The Solar Rating and Certification Corporation.
So apparently, this is a good way to compare systems
and units.
Later in the book he goes on to state that flat plate
collectors cost $25 a square foot and evacuated tubes
cost $75 a square foot, so if the Chinese have low
cost ones out now, that might make a difference. He
also speaks to the seals in the evacuated tubes being
guaranteed for 10 to 15 years, if at all, while the
flat plate last a lot longer.
Shody
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shody Ryon <qi4u at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and
boilers vs. hot water heaters
To: Strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <16623.8182.qm at web90603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I suppose a heating loop from the solar water heater
could be placed around the collector itself to melt
snow.
Shody
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:15:46 -0700
From: "Alan Mason" <strawbaleguy at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Carbide Lime
To: "Stone Tool" <owly at ttc-cmc.net>, <strawbale at listserv.repp.org>
Message-ID: <013101c78640$6225ecb0$f2d28304 at gateway>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well, if you are talking a true stucco, then here's what the Portland Cement
Association has to say (http://www.cement.org/stucco/faq_coats.asp)
"Proportions are clearly spelled out in ASTM C 926, Standard Specification
for Application of Portland Cement-Based Plaster. [www.astm.org] Scratch
coats are mixed at 1 part cement to 2-1/4 to 4 parts sand, brown coats are
mixed at 1 part cement to 3 to 5 parts sand, and finish coats are 1 part
cement to 1-1/2 to 3 parts sand."
They go on to say,
"It is important to note that the term "cement" includes all cementitious
materials, such as cement plus lime. So if 1 part cement is used with
one-half part lime, that equals 1-1/2 parts cementitious materials, and that
total is then multiplied by the sand number. For the finish coat, for
instance, the range is 1-1/2 to 3 parts sand: 1-1/2 times 1-1/2 is 2-1/4 and
1-1/2 times 3 is 4-1/2. So if we have 1-1/2 total parts of cementitious
materials, the sand parts would range from 2-1/4 to 4-1/2."
A mix I have used frequently is one part portland and one part lime to the
appropriate number of parts of sand, depending on the coat you are doing.
Part of what the lime does, in addition to helping the mix breathe, is
extend the time the stucco is workable. Its called a plasticizer. AVOID
using so-called plastic cements. They tend to cure very quickly and are not
as easy to work with as plain old portland, especially if you are using a
Tirolessa, and you don't want to add any lime to them.
The PCA puts out a short (72 page) and somewhat pricey ($25) book called the
Plaster/Stucco Manual that will give you a lot of the basics of conventional
stucco. You can order it, and obtain a lot of other conventional stucco info
at their website www.cement.org.
If you want to learn more about true lime plasters than you might even want
to know, for about the same price as the Plaster/Stucco Manual you can get
"Building with Lime, A Practical Introduction" by Holmes & Wingate at
Amazon.com. At 300 plus pages, the "Introduction" in the title is an
understatement at the least.
BTW, you weren't planning on using that hay for actual construction, were
you?
@
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stone Tool" <owly at ttc-cmc.net>
To: <strawbale at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:03 PM
Subject: [Strawbale] Carbide Lime
> I have finally gotten around to inquiring about the huge pile of
> carbide lime available locally...... about 100 miles from home. As I
> had expected it is free for the hauling...... but I have to load it
> myself. I probably will go down and load a drum or two to
> experiment with in making my own stucco mix....... I have a truck load
> of bales...... bought a two ton truck the other day for the 18' van
> body, power lift gate, and brand new 20" rubber on an auction......
> stole might be a better word as I got it for a mere $1000.00 ........
> and it had several tons of bales in it as I discovered after the
> auction...... Doesn't run but who cares?? The bales are actually
> crested wheat grass hay..... which is what I probably would have used
> anyway rather than actual straw.
>
> Anybody have any estimates of quantity of lime required per cubic foot
> or cubic yard for stucco...... I am assuming that a 20% cement / 80%
> lime based mix would be about right. It'd like to work up an
> approximate quantity for my wall footage so I can accumulate what I need.
>
> My other concern is what chemical state this lime is actually in......
> I can get it pretty fresh from the acetylene plant, or get it many years
> old... any ideas on this? No doubt some of it would have reacted to
> CO2 in the atmosphere to form calcium carbonate again, though it should
> be pretty well hydrated having come out of an acetylene plant where
> calcium carbide is reacted with water to create calcium hydrate and
> acetylene......... I must admit to being eager to see what actually
> transpires when I mix up lime, sand, water, and a bit of Portland.
>
> Any thoughts or first hand experience???
>
>
> H.W.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Strawbale mailing list
> Strawbale at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/strawbale_listserv.repp.org
>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:16:01 -0700
From: "Chris Arai" <chris-sb at araidesign.com>
Subject: [Strawbale] Looking for Plaster Hair source
To: strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <462D4C41.4824.15238A3F at chris-sb.araidesign.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
I am looking for a good source for animal hair for plastering. I have a big
project, so I would prefer to source it near the project (Northern California.)
Does anyone know where to find this? I could order it from the UK, but that
seems a bit silly.
Thanks,
Chris
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:41:11 -0500
From: "David Neeley" <dbneeley at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and
boilers vs. hot water heaters
To: "Shody Ryon" <qi4u at yahoo.com>, "Straw BaleListServe"
<strawbale at listserv.repp.org>
Message-ID:
<e86e45c10704240541re5dd782l1bf75ef6941a06b9 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Evacuated tube designs have their good points as well as not so good
ones. Since they are available for far more reasonable cost these
days, they can be an appropriate solution in many cases.
For example, any position in which you put a flat plate collector is a
compromise. That is because as a general rule a water heating
collector does not articulate to follow the sun for peak performance.
By contrast, the evacuated tube collector accepts sunlight with equal
efficiency from many angles without any movement of the collector
itself.
Very high temperatures are possible because of the vacuum--the
temperature is generated inside, but not lost to the outside of the
tubes themselves. Thus, it can build up quite efficiently.
Also because of the vacuum, they are much more freeze resistant than
most flat plate collectors, which must depend upon antifreeze in
colder weather. Antifreeze is not as efficient a heat transfer medium
as is straight water.
David
On 4/23/07, Shody Ryon <qi4u at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I might be wrong. It doesn't make sense that evacuated
> tubes would be used for very high temps and be
> considered less efficient.
> In the book "Solar Water Heating" Page 27 states;
> "Since their conception much has been said about the
> efficiency of evacuated tube collectors. They are
> commonly heralded around the solar industry as a more
> efficient collector. If you were just to look at the
> collector designs' that is a n easy assumption to
> make. Normally, if you reduce heat losses, in this
> case by the vacuum of the tubes, you would increase
> efficiency. So it may sound counterintuitive if I tell
> you that flat plate collectors are actually more
> efficient for all residential and most commercial
> applications even though they are not as well
> insulated. It takes more than a clever design to
> produce hot water. It takes a system that is
> appropriately designed to do what you want it to do.
> The measure of a collector's efficiency should be how
> well they preform when put to use. The best way to
> measure that is through an independent testing
> organization."
> Paraphrasing:
> The Solar Rating and Certification Corporation.
> So apparently, this is a good way to compare systems
> and units.
> Later in the book he goes on to state that flat plate
> collectors cost $25 a square foot and evacuated tubes
> cost $75 a square foot, so if the Chinese have low
> cost ones out now, that might make a difference. He
> also speaks to the seals in the evacuated tubes being
> guaranteed for 10 to 15 years, if at all, while the
> flat plate last a lot longer.
> Shody
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Strawbale mailing list
> Strawbale at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/strawbale_listserv.repp.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:21:22 +1000
From: <rhysh at webone.com.au>
Subject: [Strawbale] Window bucks - if you wrap bales *outside* the
frame?
To: "'Straw BaleListServe'" <strawbale at listserv.repp.org>
Message-ID: <000601c78673$741f7c50$63f0fea9 at CHAUCER>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am looking at a house design with a fancy heavy timber frame where we want
the bales to be adjacent but external to the line of the frame rather than
between the posts. This maximises floorspace and reduces bale cutting.
Can anyone point me to a website showing how the window bucks are typically
done in this arrangement?
Thanks
Rhys Howitt
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:08:59 -0600
From: Stone Tool <owly at ttc-cmc.net>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Looking for Plaster Hair source
To: strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <462E016B.3030400 at ttc-cmc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Chris:
You might find it amusing to capture stray dogs and shear
them.......... A girlfriend and I did that once many years ago (teen)
when she wanted dog hair for a weaving project..... A naked Afghan is a
pathetically humorous sight.
Seriously though, how about using human hair....... barber shops throw
tons of it away. Also in the sheep industry only the main "fleece" is
desirable and there are usually bags of "tags" which is the wool from
the face and legs. There may also be tannery waste hair available
somewhere...... hides have the hair removed in the tanning process, but
it may not be separated from other undesirable waste.
H.W.
Chris Arai wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a good source for animal hair for plastering. I have a big
> project, so I would prefer to source it near the project (Northern California.)
> Does anyone know where to find this? I could order it from the UK, but that
> seems a bit silly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Strawbale mailing list
> Strawbale at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/strawbale_listserv.repp.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:35:55 -0400
From: Kate Bastedo <kbastedo at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Looking for Plaster Hair source
To: strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <28D153E2-0BB3-4B9F-B449-B293BBAA0275 at bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Pet groomers. They collect tons of it, especially now that it is
spring and dogs are getting their undercoats removed.
I second the hair salon/ barber shop...a cutting place like
Supercuts, or Haircuttery. They 'remove' far more than the higher
priced places, simply due to the sheer volume of customers.
Good Luck,
Kate
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:43:24 -0400
From: "Rob Tom" <ArchiLogic at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Looking for Plaster Hair source
To: "Chris Arai" <chris-sb at araidesign.com>,
strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <op.traommc8ffylj4 at edg-d0726062bd2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
charset=iso-8859-15
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:16:01 -0400, Chris Arai <chris-sb at araidesign.com>
wrote:
> I am looking for a good source for animal hair for plastering.
> I could order it from the UK, but that seems a bit silly.
Chris;
I agree, but would modify that "bit" to "very".
A good source would be the nearest horse barn, preferably one that has
more than a few horses. In this case, more (horses) is more (hair).
--
=== * ===
Rob Tom
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
< A r c h i L o g i c at C h a f f Y a h o o dot C a >
(winnow the chaff from my edress in your reply)
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shody Ryon <qi4u at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Strawbale] Chinese-made evacuated tube collectors and
boilers vs. hot water heaters
To: strawbale at listserv.repp.org
Message-ID: <977330.7368.qm at web90615.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
When I was in the caribbean, I saw evac tube
collectors everywhere, including displays in every big
mall; in the north west US, I do not think I have seen
one. A local radiant floor supplier has basically an
unlimited supply of used evac tube collects. I get the
idea that they come from a large goverment or
commercial project that changed them out for some
reason.
Shody
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