[Strawbale] Cement vs. clay (was "trashcrete")

[Stone Tool]

Ladies:
	I am here to discuss building....... not CO2 emissions or embodied 
energy.   My building will include about 40 yards of concrete in the 
floor as it is  100% NON-NEGOTIABLE.......  Do you think I would even 
consider building the walls out of mud & straw?  I am interested ONLY in 
the structural aspects of building with straw, not the environmental 
friendliness,  as it is the structure will end up using far less energy 
in both the long and the short term than other structures of this size.

	My question had to do not with the supposed environmental issues, but 
with the structural issues........ please do not answer a structural 
question with an environmental opinion...... it is completely useless.

	I WILL be building this summer...... this is NOT a hypothetical 
discussion....... The decisions I make and results of a few experiments 
will determine the ACTUAL methods of construction of a 40x60 building 
with a 16x60 attached structure.

	Let's be realistic here.........  There are thousands of buildings 
going up with conventional construction...... metal, wood, concrete, 
plastics, fiberglass insulation, etc........   The way to encourage such 
methods as straw construction is to look at practical applications and 
methods, not belabor potential builders with "environmental guilt" to 
the point they get disgusted and leave.....  It is desirable for 
strawbale and other similar construction methods to gain general 
acceptance, and so long as it is viewed from the outside as the venue of 
environmental extremists and dreamers there will be little traction.
	Those for whom environmental concerns come first and foremost are 
already converts to your religion.  A few thousand people who take the 
most extreme approaches and build out of mud and whatnot, go 100% off 
grid, get rid of their cars, grow their own food won't make even the 
tiniest difference......... Millions of people adopting more moderate 
"solutions" and more environmentally friendly lifestyles can have a huge 
impact.  As for myself I could easily go with conventional metal 
building construction and fiberglass insulation on my shop, and I would 
not lose a minute's sleep over it.  The primary driving force behind 
using straw bale construction for me is tax advantage...... lower 
taxable value.....
	pardon me for seeming rude....... I am more than a little bit impatient 
with this sort of thing.........  I had hoped to be able to participate 
in a group of serious builders who seriously looked at structural 
solutions and ideas.  I do actually respect people's efforts to leave a 
smaller footprint on this earth by building with "natural" materials, 
but the reasons for making these choices are not the primary topic here 
as far as I know...... If so I am in the wrong place.   perhaps the 
place I really actually belong is sitting on a barstool next to my 
redneck buddies with our 4x4 pickups with rifles in the gunracks parked 
outside...... perhaps I should simply forget straw construction and hire 
a contractor to put up a standard metal building with R19 fiberglass 
insulation and just charge my customers a bit more to cover the 
additional costs of construction and the ongoing heating costs.....   A 
cold beer or a shot of whiskey does sound pretty good right now.

	H.W.

Shody Ryon wrote:
> Hi,
> I was just about the write about the CO2 emissions,
> but you beat me to it. I saw this on the Discover
> channel last week, and they were saying that changing
> the way we build houses will have a significant effect
> on global climate change. Thinking about this a little
> should, in my opinion, have a big impact on whether or
> not (or how much) Portland cement products are used.
> Granted that CO2 is a relaitively heavy gas (I think),
> what size volume would a pound of CO2 be at normal
> atmospheric pressure be (14.7 PSI at sea level, more
> or less)? Thinking about how people use concrete ...
> that is a lot of CO2, and I do not think everyone is
> going to stop using concrete so I wonder if clay can
> be used instead of concrete for foundations (perhaps
> with bamboo rebar)? Clay that will not only be kept
> dry, and by dry, that likely does not mean just
> putting some 6 mil polyethylene sheeting down, I
> think. A very effective drain system could be used
> that might include rain water collection systems, an
> overflow that included an effective wet lands area
> and/or dry well and perhaps an AGS or other solar
> heating system to continually bake the foundation as
> well as supply an isolated controlable heating system.
> That would reduce CO2 emissions from some of the
> convensional heating systems too.
> Cheers,
> Shody
> 
> <snip> 
>> The issue with cement is not just embodied energy,
>> but also that a pound of
>> CO2 goes into the atmosphere per pound of cement
>> produced.  So by my
>> thinking, if clay is local, has almost zero embodied
>> energy, and produces no
>> greenhouse gas...it's a winner from an
>> eco-viewpoint.
>>
>> Thanks, Sigi
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Strawbale mailing list
> Strawbale at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/strawbale_listserv.repp.org
>